Bane - Bows and Arrows

[glass]

It adds +2 to the enhancement bonus under certain circumstances. That seems like a bonus (using the conventional and D&D definition). Bonuses to bonuses have some precedence in D&D (i.e. amulet of natural armor).

It seems like in every debate here in Rules, someone always points to an example of a case where something is specifically noted as evidence that another case which lacks the note works the same way, when in fact is is the opposite.


glass.

 

[Telas]

The topic's been drifting... As the OP, let me restate and update. Assume that we're using the Bane effect on the appropriate target.

A +1 Bane arrow fired from a +5 bow is +5 Bane.

Is a +5 arrow fired from a +1 Bane bow a +7 Bane arrow, or a +5 Bane arrow?

Someone on another list pinged WotC on it, and was told that it's a +7 Bane arrow by Trevor the Customer Service Rep. I don't know what water that holds, but it's what we got on it.

FWIW, I would have the it max at +5 Bane, and assume the bow normally fires a +3 Bane arrow. The +5 supercedes the +3, but retains the Bane quality (+2d6 damage). This is my houserule, not intended for application outside my table.

Telas (query/response follows)

Customer (Name Excised) 11/03/2006 11:44 AM
What would the result be if attacking a creature with the undead subtype with a +1 Bane Vs Undead Longbow with +5 Arrows? Would the bow's Bane Property superced the arrow thus producing +3 to hit/damage 1d8+3 +2d6 Damage? Or would this be +7 to hit/damage 1d8+7 +2d6 damage or how exactly should this be treated?

Response (Trevor K.) 11/03/2006 03:12 PM
Hey there Dale. In this situation the bane ability would be applied to the arrow and the attack roll made with the bow against undead. So it would be +7 to hit against undead and the damage would be 1d8+2d6+7. Have fun and good gaming!

Trevor
Customer Service Representative
Wizards of the Coast
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[Artoomis]

...Someone on another list pinged WotC on it, and was told that it's a +7 Bane arrow by Trevor the Customer Service Rep. I don't know what water that holds, but it's what we got on it...

Actually, Trevor said it's +7 to hit against the Bane opponent, so it's +5 Bane.

 

[Artoomis]

I suggest you keep it simple:

+5 bow with +1 Bane Arrow = +5 Bane arrow which would be +7 to hit and +2d6 damage against the right creatures.

+1 Bane Bow with +5 arrow = +5 Bane arrow which would be +7 to hit and +2d6 damage against the right creatures.

Simple, eh?

 

[Telas]

Actually, Trevor said it's +7 to hit against the Bane opponent, so it's +5 Bane.

Please check the assumption at the top... I'm referring to effective bonus here. Although I could have been clearer.

Telas

 

[Artoomis]

Please check the assumption at the top... I'm referring to effective bonus here. Although I could have been clearer.

Telas

I think you'll find it's easier to:

1. Talk about the total "to hit" bonus, when that's what you mean.

2. Keep the Bane quality seperate from the Enhancement bonus until the arrow is in the air - this makes it easy, really. It also makes sense - the bow/arrow does not know the creature is the target creature until it is hitting, the extra +2 can be thought of as extra pentrating power rather than accuracy.

Using my method is the easiest. It follows the rules, but makes the analysis be much more trivial.

 

[mvincent]

Is a +5 arrow fired from a +1 Bane bow a +7 Bane arrow

I though that we conclusively determined that it would be the same as a regular +5 bane arrow (which yields a +7 bonus)?

 

[mvincent]

If the current debate is whether or not an Outsider (lawful) Bane Longbow firing an Outsider (evil) Bane Arrow deals an additional 4d6 i think the answer is yes.

I don't beleive that is the current debate, as damage normally stacks. The current issue is whether the bonuses (or additions, increases, etc.) to hit stack.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Is a +5 arrow fired from a +1 Bane bow a +7 Bane arrow, or a +5 Bane arrow?

Someone on another list pinged WotC on it, and was told that it's a +7 Bane arrow by Trevor the Customer Service Rep. I don't know what water that holds, but it's what we got on it.

If you mean an effective +5 Bane arrow, yielding a +7 effective enhancement bonus, I agree completely.

A +1 Bane arrow fired from a +5 bow is +5 Bane.

That, I disagree with.

-Hyp.

 

[erple2]

That, I disagree with.
-Hyp.

(in relation to a +5 Bow firing a +1 Bane Arrow)

I fail to see the difference...

I think that Artoomis got it best. The Bane quality should be separate from the Enhancement quality - A +5 bow firing a +1 Bane arrow results in a projectile that's +5 Bane. Similarly, a +1 Bane bow firing a +5 Arro also results in a +5 Bane projectile. Against the right target, the net effect is that it's a +5 (+2 if right target from Bane) to hit, and +5 (+2 +2D6 if right target from Bane) to damage. Then, I'd also have to rule that a:
+1 Evil outsider Bane Lawful Outsider Bane weapon is +5 to hit and +5 + 4D6 to damage against a Devil.

Huh...

I wonder if some of the confusion is when people say something is a +5 Bane or +7 Bane. There are no non-epic +7 Bane weapons (as a +7 bonus requires Epic Weapons). A weapon can be up to a +5 bonus, and can have Bane attatched to it, for at most a +5 Bane Weapon. Against the favored foe, the Bane property kicks in, granting the weapon a +7 to hit and deals +7 + 2D6 damage. Is there lack of wording precision? (Geez, I should have been a lawyer....)