Banned for life

Status
Not open for further replies.

Dannyalcatraz

Schmoderator
Staff member
Supporter
Wait, does that make trespass theft? Is sneaking into a theater theft? It seems to be in two ways, if both trespass and unauthorized viewing are theft.

A similar example: Unauthorized creation of a drug which is under patent.

Something which is different, at a glance: If I steal a car, the car has a described value which I'm denying the person who owns the care. If I make batches of a drug, I haven't deprived the owner of the drug patent the value of their patent, except to the degree that I've limited their sales of the drug. But, if I give the drug to people with very little money, that limits the lose to the patent holder.

Thx!

TomB
Tresspass is a crime against rights in real property, not personal property, so strictly speaking, isn't theft.

The rest all fall into acts under the broad umbrella of theft. They're all different enough they'd be covered under different statutes: sneaking into the movies would be tresspass and possibly some form of larceny (though unlikely); the car under GTA; the copied drug by patent law.

BTW, that you're giving the infringed-upon IP away doesn't shield you in IP cases...that you make a profit is not an element of the crime.

Part of the reason why many modern legal systems have those broad theft statutes is because it makes prosecution easier. Under the old common law, if you charged someone with robbery when they had actually committed burglary or larceny, they could walk on the charge, at least temporarily. With the umbrella style theft statutes, you charge theft, and as long as their actions meet one of the definitions, you're golden.

Lest you think its all cut & dried, consider robbery. In most legal codes, robbery is kept distinct from theft, even though it is essentially theft + force. But in the courts, the definition of "force" has been so construed to venture into territory that resembles larceny by trick.
 
Last edited:

log in or register to remove this ad

tomBitonti

Adventurer
BTW, that you're giving the infringed-upon IP away doesn't shield you in IP cases...that you make a profit is not an element of the crime.

Ah, (I'm thinking), I was confusing civil penalties with criminal ones. But, doesn't that get muddled because copyright infringement takes into account loss of income, potential or actual?

Thx!

TomB
 

Dannyalcatraz

Schmoderator
Staff member
Supporter
Ah, (I'm thinking), I was confusing civil penalties with criminal ones. But, doesn't that get muddled because copyright infringement takes into account loss of income, potential or actual?

Thx!

TomB

Actually, IP law includes both civil and criminal penalties. And while they do look at those elements, they're factors about how you will be punished, not whether you're guilty or not.
 

JRRNeiklot

First Post
As with most things in life, there are plenty of things that are true and correct but still disagreeable with.

bill's absolutely right that you should be free to say stuff in your own house.

On the other hand, how were we to learn that Donald Sterling was a racist, if the girl didn't have a recording. Was she going to go to the press with a "i was talking to Donald and he said..." with no proof?

As Dannyalcatraz says, by paying attention. But this is America, having racist thoughts and words should not preclude one from owning a business. Maybe he should have been fired long ago for his ACTIONS, but not for words. Never for words.
 

Dannyalcatraz

Schmoderator
Staff member
Supporter
But this is America, having racist thoughts and words should not preclude one from owning a business.

His racist thoughts and words are not precluding him from having a business, just THIS business. Again, this is a small group of privileged people that you have to be approved of to join. And because of his words, they're are revoking his membership.

And it isn't as if this is unique: would you care to guess what happens when you're discovered to be espousing racist dogma while you're bidding on a government contract?

Actions have consequences...and so do words.

Maybe he should have been fired long ago for his ACTIONS, but not for words. Never for words.

Oh most certainly, words worth firing people for.

Libel, slander, incitement to riot, creating a hostile workplace- these and others can be done with just words, and all can get you fired. Justifiably so.
 

Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
Supporter
But this is America, having racist thoughts and words should not preclude one from owning a business.

He isn't, in general. He wants to buy a pizzeria, he can go right ahead.

His ownership of the Clippers is not simply "owning a business" in the classic, traditional sense. He doesn't own free and clear with no strings attached. He owns with a great may stipulations he agreed to at the time of purchase. He has partners. He has the right to own a business. But his partners also have a right to choose who they do business with.

While discriminating against a person due to race, sex, religion, or sexual orientation is problematic, it is still perfectly legal to choose to not work with big ol' Class-A jerks.
 
Last edited:

JRRNeiklot

First Post
If everyone lost their job or business for being a jerk - and I'm not disputing the fact that he's a jerk, he said some horrible things - there'd be a lot less people employed. And if everyone lost their job because someone didn't like something they said, none of us would have a job.

Libel, slander, incitement to riot, creating a hostile workplace- these and others can be done with just words, and all can get you fired. Justifiably so.

None of which he did. And at any rate, all of those cause harm. Merely stating an opinion, know matter how horrible that opinion sounds to ANYONE, doesn't directly causes harm. And we're also not talking about someone getting fired. We're talking about taking someone's business away. For words baited out of his mouth in his own home.

It's a slippery slope is all I'm saying. When you start taking people's stuff because you don't like what they say, that's the road to fascism, if done by the government, and mob rule when done by the public.
 
Last edited:

Dannyalcatraz

Schmoderator
Staff member
Supporter
Libel, slander, incitement to riot, creating a hostile workplace- these and others can be done with just words, and all can get you fired. Justifiably so.
None of which he did. And at any rate, all of those cause harm. Merely stating an opinion, know matter how horrible that opinion sounds to ANYONE, doesn't directly causes harm. And we're also not talking about someone getting fired. We're talking about taking someone's business away. For words baited out of his mouth in his own home.
Au contraire- "creating a hostile workplace " is arguably EXACTLY what he did when his racist comments became generally known. Especially when you consider the ethnic breakdown of the workforce that puts butts in seats at Clippers games.

And, in case you missed it, before these comments became known, he is alleged to have created a hostile workplace in the Clippers organization for quite some time:

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports....ohnson-tells-a-vintage-donald-sterling-story/

http://blogs.seattletimes.com/take2...r-eldridge-recasner-on-why-nba-wont-miss-him/

In addition, his words caused real harm to the image of the Clippers AND the league- several hundred thousand to a couple million dollars worth in sponsorship revenue in just a couple of days- and that drain would have gone from a trickle to a deluge. The entire NBA was at risk. Not just of losing money, but of losing out on agreements with all kinds of governmental agencies.

Again, the fact that he is losing the Clippers is his own damn fault. HE signed the contract that made his ownership of the Clippers possible, with aaaaaaaalllll the clauses designed to protect the NBA and the owners from the actions of, well...the owners themselves.

And shooting off one's mouth like he did would probably be enough to get him ashcanned- even without media exposure- if the other owners in the NBA felt like they didn't want him around anymore. Remember, this is a private organization. Regardless of your wealth, you can't just own a team in the NBA, you can't just start your own team and expect to have games scheduled against the Spurs and 76ers. You don't have a right to an NBA franchise. You get investigated. You get voted on. You get accepted or denied.

And if you piss off the other owners, you get booted out of the club.
 
Last edited:

Janx

Hero
His racist thoughts and words are not precluding him from having a business, just THIS business. Again, this is a small group of privileged people that you have to be approved of to join. And because of his words, they're are revoking his membership.

And it isn't as if this is unique: would you care to guess what happens when you're discovered to be espousing racist dogma while you're bidding on a government contract?

Actions have consequences...and so do words.



Oh most certainly, words worth firing people for.

Libel, slander, incitement to riot, creating a hostile workplace- these and others can be done with just words, and all can get you fired. Justifiably so.

If the only way to prove he's a bad guy is to record his words, is that justifiable?

I didn't take his business away from him. But by knowing he's a bad guy, I am now able to choose to not do business with him based on his status as a bad guy.
 


Status
Not open for further replies.
Remove ads

Top