Banned for life

[Umbran]

If everyone lost their job or business for being a jerk - and I'm not disputing the fact that he's a jerk, he said some horrible things - there'd be a lot less people employed.

If you work at Foo-Mart, and you make a disparaging, racist comment such that a customer hears it, and that gets back to the manager, you might well face disciplinary action or be fired with cause. You might not, but nobody's going to be surprised if it happens, either.

And if everyone lost their job because someone didn't like something they said, none of us would have a job.

This is a little beyond, "someone didn't like." The guy said that he didn't want a woman close to him even being seen with an African American. Note how many of the players and ticket buyers are African Americans? He said something that the majority of his employees and tens of thousands of paying customers would naturally take as a personal insult.

He owns the team. That means he must keep to a certain level of decorum in his public persona. If he isn't up to it - for example, by being too stupid or arrogant to keep his private life private so he gets caught - then he shouldn't be in that role. Because, really, telling a bi-racial woman that she shouldn't be seen in public with African American men is dumb, and arrogant. He didn't see the possibility that she might just take offense, and think of a way to get back at him for it? That speaks to a lack of savvy that means he's really no longer suitable for ownership.

And no, there is no slippery slope here. This is a very highly-placed individual, being held to the standards required of that position. What happens to him does not logically extend to it happening to the rest of us.

 

[billd91]

For the record, the Green Bay Packers are a publicly owned team (the only one in the NFL).

No kidding. Being from Wisconsin, I'd never have known that.

But even so, it's not like the Brown County sales tax hike to pay for work on Lambeau Field has been uncontroversial. A lot of people will be glad when it expires next year. But the point is the Green Bay Packers are well-regarded by the fans and locals (well, worshiped, really) and can get away with a lot on the issue of public funding. I imagine the same will be true with other storied, long-term resident teams like the Chicago Bears despite not being owned by shareholders. Can you imagine Cubs fans not being willing to pony up to make improvements to Wrigley Field? And then you get other cases like the Marlins where it looks a lot more like fleecing the public.

 

[tomBitonti]

I'm thinking we need to be careful to add a finder distinction than is provided by using only the word "owner".

I can own a corner store, and manage it directly, or be personally involved in hiring the store manager and crew.

Or, I can own stock in a public company, and pay no attention to it other than to glance at my 401K allocations occasionally. Heck, I might not have any clear idea of what I own, because all of it is through funds that own a broad collection of stocks.

I can get even further removed, and have ownership through a blind trust.

Should a major corporation be boycotted because a fraction of its shareholders hold particular views? How about if a majority shareholder held those views?

Can I be forced to sell shares of a company, of which I hold a miniscule proportion of shares, because of my views? Or, say, if I have committed a major crime?

Thx!

TomB

 

[JRRNeiklot]

If you work at Foo-Mart, and you make a disparaging, racist comment such that a customer hears it, and that gets back to the manager, you might well face disciplinary action or be fired with cause. You might not, but nobody's going to be surprised if it happens, either.

Yes, but what happens when you're the owner?

If a man loses his business for racist remarks, what happens to the players and coaches? A gay slur is a 50-100k fine, but a racial slur is 2 million, a lifetime ban, and forfeiture of assets.How many players have used the "N" word? How many have been in jail for assault, or selling drugs, or torturing and killing animals (Michael Vick)? Yet they can suit up and continue to make millions. There's a whole lot of stuff going on in professional sports much worse than being a racist in your own home, yet, actual criminal behavior seems to be ok. I'd rather a thousand horrible people say horrible things than have to watch every word I say for fear I might offend someone somewhere and lose my business or home, or whatever.

I personally hate the thought of pineapple on pizza and think anyone who likes it is mentally incompetent. Please don't bring your pineapple loving pizza friends to my D&D games. Now I'm off to wait on the Pineapple Police to come take my house.

 

[Umbran]

Yes, but what happens when you're the owner?

Ask Chick-Fil-A.

If a man loses his business for racist remarks, what happens to the players and coaches?

Well, now we get into something a bit more interesting. How much does the owner make per year? How much does a typical individual player?

If/when the team is sold, Sterling is likely to walk away with $500 million to $1 billion. If a typical player is fired, how much does he walk away with? Probably nothing, right? Are those equivalent? The player loses his entire livelihood, and Sterling walks away with something like a billion dollars?

I think some of you may be too fixed on the concept of "loss of ownership", and need to remember that the value of a punishment is relative. To the player, the job is probably everything he's got. If he loses that in ignominy, he's going to do what, exactly, for the rest of his life? Sell used cars? Meanwhile, Sterling's going to cry all the way to the bank, as he's getting something like a 30x return on a long-term investment he made in the 1980s.

Simply put - Sterling is in a completely different position than a player, both in organizational/role terms, and in financial terms, and some of you are engaging in some hefty comparison of apples to oranges.

I personally hate the thought of pineapple on pizza and think anyone who likes it is mentally incompetent. Please don't bring your pineapple loving pizza friends to my D&D games. Now I'm off to wait on the Pineapple Police to come take my house.

Because, as we all know, your game is a major public spectator sport for which ticket sales are in the millions of dollars a session?

And they aren't gong to be taking away Sterling's house - they're planning to take his ownership and give him back market value for the team, in a process that could take years, during which he's still reaping the monetary rewards of ownership.

It seem to me you're doing an excellent job of showing how Sterling's case really doesn't extend down to folks like you and me.

 

[Dannager]

Danny, he didn't create a hostile work environment, the woman who baited and recorded him did when she sold the recordings.

"I didn't create a hostile work environment when I said that all of my employees were trash and deserve to be fired! You created the hostile work environment when you recorded me saying those things and gave it to the employees I called trash!"

Hopefully that puts things in perspective for you. We have a responsibility to watch what we say. Our words have consequences. Doubly so when you are contractually bound in such a way as to jeopardize your stake in an organization by playing a major role in a PR disaster.

 

[JRRNeiklot]

Ask Chick-Fil-A.



Well, now we get into something a bit more interesting. How much does the owner make per year? How much does a typical individual player?

If/when the team is sold, Sterling is likely to walk away with $500 million to $1 billion. If a typical player is fired, how much does he walk away with? Probably nothing, right? Are those equivalent? The player loses his entire livelihood, and Sterling walks away with something like a billion dollars?

I think some of you may be too fixed on the concept of "loss of ownership", and need to remember that the value of a punishment is relative. To the player, the job is probably everything he's got. If he loses that in ignominy, he's going to do what, exactly, for the rest of his life? Sell used cars? Meanwhile, Sterling's going to cry all the way to the bank, as he's getting something like a 30x return on a long-term investment he made in the 1980s.

Simply put - Sterling is in a completely different position than a player, both in organizational/role terms, and in financial terms, and some of you are engaging in some hefty comparison of apples to oranges.



Because, as we all know, your game is a major public spectator sport for which ticket sales are in the millions of dollars a session?

And they aren't gong to be taking away Sterling's house - they're planning to take his ownership and give him back market value for the team, in a process that could take years, during which he's still reaping the monetary rewards of ownership.

It seem to me you're doing an excellent job of showing how Sterling's case really doesn't extend down to folks like you and me.

Those poor players, having nothing but the 100 million or so in the bank. Sterling's case is but an example. He happened to make a good investment. What if he'd bought the team today, and it devalued over 10 years? As to folks like you and I, it's not the amount of zeroes involved, it's the principal of the thing. It doesn't even matter WHAT he said - and again, I'm not disputing the character of the man, I think he's despicable - I object to people losing assets over words said, especially in private. What's next? Someone personally doesn't approve of {insert topic here], and suddenly the witch hunt is on once again.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Danny, he didn't create a hostile work environment, the woman who baited and recorded him did when she sold the recordings.

Yes he did create a hostile work environment, and long before these comments came to light- the stories I lined to above are just a coupe of many. That his racism has been exposed completely just illuminates the WHY behind the environment he created...and further poisons its atmosphere. Now the players know the reason he (seemingly) fought his black players' contractual demands with more vigor than white ones.

Also, as of this point in time, Viviano denies being responsible for the leak...rather more vigorously than Sterling has denied that he ordered the tapes made... In fact, the most recent claim is that someone else (supposedly one of Viviano's friends) took the recording and released it.

 

[Zombie_Babies]

"I didn't create a hostile work environment when I said that all of my employees were trash and deserve to be fired! You created the hostile work environment when you recorded me saying those things and gave it to the employees I called trash!"

Hopefully that puts things in perspective for you. We have a responsibility to watch what we say. Our words have consequences. Doubly so when you are contractually bound in such a way as to jeopardize your stake in an organization by playing a major role in a PR disaster.

Umm ... I'm sure you've said some nasty things about coworkers, bosses or employees over the years - we all have. That didn't create a hostile work environment, did it? In other words, your action did nothing by itself. Hopefully that puts things in perspective for you. The man said something he thought was in private and someone else decided to make it public - not him. He didn't do it, he never wanted to do it, if it were up to him none of his employees ever would have heard it.

He's a nasty bigot, that's certain. The issue is that he was a nasty bigot in private and someone else decided to out him. That's not on him - he didn't make anything he said a policy, he never booted any of her friends from the games (even though he could have since they were using his seats), he did nothing.

Yes he did create a hostile work environment, and long before these comments came to light- the stories I lined to above are just a coupe of many. That his racism has been exposed completely just illuminates the WHY behind the environment he created...and further poisons its atmosphere. Now the players know the reason he (seemingly) fought his black players' contractual demands with more vigor than white ones.

Irrelevant. He's not being punished for things that happened a long time ago, he's being punished for this.

Also, as of this point in time, Viviano denies being responsible for the leak...rather more vigorously than Sterling has denied that he ordered the tapes made... In fact, the most recent claim is that someone else (supposedly one of Viviano's friends) took the recording and released it.

What do you expect her to say? 'Yeah, bro. I recorded that old racist SoB and tried to blackmail him. He said f-you and threatened to take all the stuff he gave me back so I did what any girl in my position and used to a certain lifestyle would do: I sold that bleep to TMZ to get paid, son. That's how we do.'?

And let's say the friend released it. You don't think it's possible she ordered him/her to do it so she could get paid, son? I mean, the absolute faith in an obvious gold digger is astounding to me. Yeah, I get the 'don't believe the racist piece of garbage' stuff but how it translates into 'trust the highly paid, 30 year old biracial* consort of an 80 year old billionaire' simply dumbfounds me.

EDIT: *Wanted to explain why I included 'biracial' here: It's cuz you can't trust those people. By 'those people', of course, I mean the kind of folks who date a man more than twice their age who has revealed himself to be intolerant of people like them. Gee, I wonder if it had anything to do with the Ferrari ... or maybe the $1.8 million house he bought her. Nah, she's totes trustworthy, right? Or maybe, just maybe, all she cares about is gettin' paid, son.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

He owns the team.

...subject to the limitations, conditions and rules of ownership as detailed in the contract with the NBA.

IOW, this isn't like starting up a toy store or opening a restaurant. His ownership is conditional, and he violated at least one of the conditions.

Now, the contract may not specifically say that the other owners/NBA Commish can force him to sell the Clippers, but I wouldn't be surprised if they were allowed to say...shrink the NBA by one team and then award a new franchise to another person or organization.