D&D 5E Bard/Cleric Build Question/Opinion

[Herbalizer]

have you considered taking 8 14 12(+1) 10 13(+1) 15(+2) and just wearing medium armor (CLR proficiency) - taking con/cha @4

​

Well the goal was to be able to have good concentration checks since a lot of the better Bard spells require it and I'll probably end up in the thick of things more than I would normally like. The Resilient Feat makes me proficient on all CON saves (making it easier to keep concentrating)

Good point about the DEX=14, because I do plan on wearing medium armor once I get it from the Cleric proficiency (so I'll have to consider it), but it's also useful for my attack rolls and ability checks. 14 dex is a bit low for my character, which also plays out as the thief. I know, I'm trying to cover all angles because I have to play multiple roles (thief, healer, crowd control, skill monkey, and occasional brawler), but this is why I asked for your inputs.


The DC for ANY spell is 8+your proficiency +the spells casting modifier. Even for a barbarian.

The only thing that changes is the modifier. Wis for cleric spells, Cha for bard spells. You need to keep track of which list you got the spell off of.

Clerics have plenty of spells that don't need a spell casting modifier. Bard's have less, but still some, but they also want Cha for insperation dice. 1/2 damage on a miss spells are also good.

Yes, having cleric spells that do not require DC or spell attack rolls would be ideal. One of the advantage of having 4 extra spell prepared is that it frees up my spell known for my bard spells. "Bless" is a given, I can live with healing spells using the WIS mod (the Life Domain already makes them as efficient as my healing spells if I was using the CHA mod without taking a Cleric level), so that leaves one (or two if WIS=14) ..Shield of Faith is ok, Detect Magic is meh, then you have Guiding Bolt (which is awesome) and Command (which can be used to render opponents prone, create AoO with flee, etc) which is a pretty good spell when you think of it ...so It would suck if I had these options in my repertoire and not use them ! Is there a way to enhance a DC or a ranged spell attack ? Does cutting Word works on opponents' saving throws ?

 

[mellored]

Concentration checks are Con saves.
Though war caster will give you a bugger bonus at low levels.

 

[bid]

8, 15(+1), 12(+1), 8, 13, 15(+2)
Take +1con+1cha @ 4?

This is strictly inferior to 8 15+1 13+1 9 13 14+2 and taking Cha+2.

Odds are the tool of the devil, don't ever touch them unless it is the only way to get what you want at the first ASI. In this case:
- you permanently lose 1 build point,
- you are 1-3 hp behind until level 4.
All this for no gain, since your Cha mod is still +2 until level 4.

 

[bid]

Good point about the DEX=14, because I do plan on wearing medium armor once I get it from the Cleric proficiency (so I'll have to consider it), but it's also useful for my attack rolls and ability checks. 14 dex is a bit low for my character, which also plays out as the thief. I know, I'm trying to cover all angles because I have to play multiple roles (thief, healer, crowd control, skill monkey, and occasional brawler), but this is why I asked for your inputs.

I second the Dex14 / medium armor trick.

If you can spend your expertise on rogue skills, you can start 9 14 14 10 14 16. Compared to Dex16, you are 1 point behind until level 4, then expertise kicks in for 2 of the 3 Dex skills.

 

[Herbalizer]

I second the Dex14 / medium armor trick.

If you can spend your expertise on rogue skills, you can start 9 14 14 10 14 16. Compared to Dex16, you are 1 point behind until level 4, then expertise kicks in for 2 of the 3 Dex skills.

Actually, I can't have this. Here is the starting stat (we're using point point spread, not

STR : 8
DEX : 15
CON : 12
WIS : 13 (+1)
INT : 10
CHA : 14 (+2) = 16

I can either have 15,14,13 ; 16,14,12 or 16,13,13
Plus, the goal was to take resilience (CON) to get proficiency on CON saves and concentration checks...

If I start with CON=14, that means I can either have:
1.
15 DEX and 13 WIS which gives me -1 on attack rolls, damage, skill checks, saves, and -1 on will saves, ability checks, -1 spell prepared AND I am not better with concentration checks. Although, at 5th, I can increase DEX and WIS and gain all those abilities (except proficiency in CON saves) and I have an extra 5 HP

or

2.
12 DEX and 16 WIS, which is a bit of an overkill and I sacrifice too much for extra HPs

The other options are

3.
16 DEX, 13 CON and 13 WIS which allows me to multiclass, and although I am wasting 2 points, at 5th, if I take resilience-CON, I get 14 and start getting extra HPs while now being proficient with CON saves (which not only helps with concentration checks, but help to resists spells with CON saves)

4.
16 DEX, 12 CON and 14 WIS. In this case, WIS checks are decent, I get an extra spell prepared (compare to option 1 and 3) but if I take resilience-CON, I am not getting the +2 ability modifier ...and so at the 10th level, I get 5 less HP than option 3 and 10 less HP than option 1 ...

As crazy as it sounds, I am leaning towards option 4, even if I wouldn't take advantage of the +1 to CON (I'd still become proficient in CON, which I think is a huge benefit). I think the +1 spell, DC, spell attack roll, ability checks and saves, outweighs the extra 5-10 HPs ...especially since I am not expecting to reach level 20 ...I've never ever reached more than level 9 with any character I've ever played !

 

[Herbalizer]

Concentration checks are Con saves.
Though war caster will give you a bugger bonus at low levels.

Yes, I was editing my post when you posted this ...just had too may rules and numbers spinning around my head, I thought I had misread this rule ...temporary brain cramp !

 

[bid]

Actually, I can't have this. Here is the starting stat (we're using point point spread, not

STR : 8
DEX : 15
CON : 12
WIS : 13 (+1)
INT : 10
CHA : 14 (+2) = 16

I can either have 15,14,13 ; 16,14,12 or 16,13,13
Plus, the goal was to take resilience (CON) to get proficiency on CON saves and concentration checks...

Ok, so you must use 8 10 12...

You have Str8 Int10 Cha14+2, that leaves 12 13 15 for Dex Con Wis with 2 racial +1...

Did you think of Dex13+1 Con15 Wis12+1?
A little unorthodox, but it seems to work fine.

The swap comes down to 1 extra prepared spell or +1 AC.

 

[Herbalizer]

Ok, so you must use 8 10 12...

You have Str8 Int10 Cha14+2, that leaves 12 13 15 for Dex Con Wis with 2 racial +1...

Did you think of Dex13+1 Con15 Wis12+1?
A little unorthodox, but it seems to work fine.

The swap comes down to 1 extra prepared spell or +1 AC.

Uhm...I hadn't thought of that...compared to the DEX 16, CON 12 and WIS, I lose +1 to hit, to damage, to AC, for initiative and to saves and ability checks (although I would still be better than anyone else..) but the AC won't matter once I get medium armor ..I also lose +1 to spell, to saves, ability checks, DC and spell attack...but I gain 15HP (at 10th level) and an additional +1 on CON saves (+2 at 5th level)

The +1/+2 on the CON saves is sort of equivalent to the -1 to both the DEX and WIS save, so the tradeoff here is 15HP for the +1 to hit, damage, initiative, spell prepared, Cleric spells DC and spell attack rolls and ability checks (and temporarily AC) ...

15 HP is significant, but are they worth that much ?

 

[bid]

Uhm...I hadn't thought of that...compared to the DEX 16, CON 12 and WIS, I lose +1 to hit, to damage, to AC, for initiative and to saves and ability checks (although I would still be better than anyone else..) but the AC won't matter once I get medium armor ..I also lose +1 to spell, to saves, ability checks, DC and spell attack...but I gain 15HP (at 10th level) and an additional +1 on CON saves (+2 at 5th level)

The +1/+2 on the CON saves is sort of equivalent to the -1 to both the DEX and WIS save, so the tradeoff here is 15HP for the +1 to hit, damage, initiative, spell prepared, Cleric spells DC and spell attack rolls and ability checks (and temporarily AC) ...

15 HP is significant, but are they worth that much ?

You cannot have 15 hp extra at level 10, it's either 10 or 20.


It all depends on the concept you have:
- archer prefers Dex16 and valor. Off the table because lore selected.
- melee prefers Dex16, magic initiate (BB) and warcaster. Lore is best. Dex and Cha compete for ASI.
- caster prefers Con16, resilient (Con) and vicious mockery. Lore again. Cha only, but alert becomes useful.

With a barbarian and sorcerer, you are not forced to fill a role in battle. Will you hit people with a stick, or will you mumble them to death?

 

[Herbalizer]

You cannot have 15 hp extra at level 10, it's either 10 or 20.

I was comparing to the CON=12 vs CON=15...For the first 5 levels, the CON=15 has +2 while CON=12 has +1, hence 5HP differential ...Then when I'd get the resilient feat at 5th, CON=16 would get +3, while CON=13 would still only have +1 ..hence the difference is 2HP per level for 5 levels (10) .Therefore 5+10 = 15

It all depends on the concept you have:
- archer prefers Dex16 and valor. Off the table because lore selected.
- melee prefers Dex16, magic initiate (BB) and warcaster. Lore is best. Dex and Cha compete for ASI.
- caster prefers Con16, resilient (Con) and vicious mockery. Lore again. Cha only, but alert becomes useful.

With a barbarian and sorcerer, you are not forced to fill a role in battle. Will you hit people with a stick, or will you mumble them to death?

Yes, the concept I initially wanted was a skill monkey caster. I can replace a thief, which we don't have, and offer support (healing/buffs/offence/whatever we need). With another melee character, I would stay in the back, buff, debuff, heal and do crown control ...But because we are only 3, I know I'll be a target ...We can't have the Barbarian get surrounded while the Sorcerer and Bard stay behind because he'll get overwhelmed. Basically, I need to be whatever is needed depending on the encounters so I wanted versatility. I plan on only taking 1 feat to gain CON proficiency, then raise CHA at 8 and 12 (MAX), and if I make it to 16 and 19 then I might consider other feats ...we'll see how my character develops ...I mean I plan on casting whenever possible, but spells are limited, and with fewer targets, that means I'll have to get my hands dirty from time to time ..the sorcerer can't melee and up until level 8, a +3 on attack and damage is decent I think. For the first 4 levels, I can have AC=18 (Med + shield) and have +3 on attack/damage ..which is pretty close to any other melee fighter with a longsword, shield and chainmail and good enough to finish off an opponent. When the Barbarian starts to get that 2nd attack and be sturdier, I'll be able to stand in the back a bit more and perform crown control (which is when I'll need concentration the most).

Seriously, this was of great help...I mean, there might be some better Bard/Cleric built out there but I think I found the one that'll fit my concept and situation !?
THX