D&D (2024) Bastion rules: every pub owner is at least 13th level

[Charlaquin]

The restriction on automatic followers is not arbitrary; rather, it is based on the assumption that the fighter's reputation by that point has spread such that people will seek them out to follow them, provided they have a sufficiently impressive base at which to find them.

Well, it is arbitrary, and that is a reasonable way to justify it in the fiction.

 

[Charlaquin]

So, I like the core concept here, where PCs of a certain level can construct a bastion, with various modular facilities that they can add onto it, each of which expands the capabilities of the bastion in unique ways. I wish that the various Orders you can choose for the facilities were integrated into the existing Downtime system instead of having their own separate system of Bastion Turns, and that players had to make real choices about what to use their Bastion for each week, instead of being able to issue an Order to each facility each week. I’m also not so keen on Bastion Points, which feel too disconnected from anything concrete in the fictional world for my tastes.

I really like that the players have the option to draw their own map of their bastion, with each facility getting an allotment of square feet. Although I think a lot of players would pass on that, I know at least some will get really into it. Although I’m sure it’s a pipe dream, the idea is inspiring visions of an almost RTS-like campaign, where players eventually expand their bastions into veritable dungeons, within which they play the role of DM for other players who’s characters seek to raid them.

 

[AnotherGuy]

We need to keep in mind that the rules for domains were the rules for PCs, as in a fighter you'd imagine had built enough renown over his adventuring days and was deemed a nobleman (landed knight). This would be enough to garner himself land for clearing to build their stronghold. An NPC would not necessarily have to be a 9th level fighter.

In 5e one could homebrew and tie renown (in the DMG) to the bastion rules and thus be able to build one's stronghold earlier.

 

[Cadence]

1e PHB page 22

"When a fighter obtains 9th level (Lord), he or she may opt to establish a freehold. This is done by building some type of castle and clearing the area in a radius of 20 to 50 miles around the stronghold, making it free from all sorts of hostile creatures. Whenever such a freehold is established and cleared, the fighter will:"

You can't opt to establish it prior to 9th level.

They could still presumably still build some type of Castle and try to clear the land though? (Does the DMG have level limits on either of those?) But there is nothing to make it a "freehold" in the sense of getting the bullets numbered 1 and 2 in the book below what you quoted.

 

[dave2008]

WotC abandoned plausibility for gamability long ago.

It started with TSR actually. In fact, it started when the "game" was created.

 

[dave2008]

This one sentence from the new Bastion rules guarantees those rules will never see use in my game: "Unlike basic facilities, special facilities can’t be bought; a character gains them through level advancement." Note that "special facilities" include Stables (minimum character level 9th) and Pubs (minimum character level 13th). So why can't my 8th-level character with 10,000 gp build Stables? I can't think of any reasonable in-game explanation. Some sort of multiverse-wide zoning restriction, maybe?

I don't know if it was this thread or not, but the bastions are not typical structures. The DMG already has info for acquiring stables, pubs, etc. Bastions on the other hand are something special. The bastion pub for example produces magic potions. That is not some a typical pub can do! At least that is what I have been told..

 

[dave2008]

They could still presumably still build some type of Castle and try to clear the land though? (Does the DMG have level limits on either of those?) But there is nothing to make it a "freehold" in the sense of getting the bullets numbered 1 and 2 in the book below what you quoted.

A fighter can presumable build a pub before 13th level as well. However, the pub would not give the benefits of a bastion until 13th level. Bastion pub =/= run-of-the-mill pub

 

[Cadence]

I don't know if it was this thread or not, but the bastions are not typical structures. The DMG already has info for acquiring stables, pubs, etc. Bastions on the other hand are something special. The bastion pub for example produces magic potions. That is not some a typical pub can do! At least that is what I have been told..

I don't remember if it ever had potions, but now I'm picturing McAnally's in the Dresden Files.

 

[Reynard]

It seems very strange to me that people are confused by D&D gating certain mechanical benefits behind minimum levels for those things. Like, that is how D&D has always worked, forever.

 

[Epic Meepo]

A fighter can presumable build a pub before 13th level as well. However, the pub would not give the benefits of a bastion until 13th level. Bastion pub =/= run-of-the-mill pub

Your observation speaks to my problem with the Bastion rules. Where are the rules for the run-of-the-mill pub? Will those be making the cut in 2024, or will the Bastion rules eat up all of the page count in the new DMG?

I really hope these Bastion rules don't end up consuming the entire page-count budget for PC bases-of-operation, because I don't see very many Bastion Pubs of Potion Making in fantasy literature. I do, however, see lots of run-of-the-mill pubs owned by adventurers. It would be nice to have ready-made rules for those, too.