Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice (Oh dear...)

[Umbran]

That there might be < GASP! > something cerebral in it, that isn't in keeping with the usual punch-em-up.

WHile I have not been digging around for them, the typical negative review I've seen is that the movie basically takes what emotional depth it might have had, and replaces it with Grimdark and lots of smashing things up - basically, putting a grey and brown filter on the four color, and hoping that makes it *look* cerebral, without actually having intelligent content.

For example, one review I saw:

"'Batman v Superman' is an overlong, boring, masochistic, mess of a film that fetishizes violence, makes no sense, and is full of bad acting and distracting CGI. Who would've expected that from Zack Snyder, director of 300, Watchmen, Sucker Punch, and Man of Steel? Thankfully, it also includes Batman's origin story, which is great because no one's ever heard that before."

And a friend of mine commented: "Best line I've seen from a BvS review: "I left feeling like I’d just been yelled at by someone I don’t know on a bus."

 

[Ryujin]

WHile I have not been digging around for them, the typical negative review I've seen is that the movie basically takes what emotional depth it might have had, and replaces it with Grimdark and lots of smashing things up - basically, putting a grey and brown filter on the four color, and hoping that makes it *look* cerebral, without actually having intelligent content.

For example, one review I saw:

"'Batman v Superman' is an overlong, boring, masochistic, mess of a film that fetishizes violence, makes no sense, and is full of bad acting and distracting CGI. Who would've expected that from Zack Snyder, director of 300, Watchmen, Sucker Punch, and Man of Steel? Thankfully, it also includes Batman's origin story, which is great because no one's ever heard that before."

And a friend of mine commented: "Best line I've seen from a BvS review: "I left feeling like I’d just been yelled at by someone I don’t know on a bus."

So false gravitas, punches, and 'splosions? Good thing I planned on taking a pass during the first weekend, to see what people were saying. So far it's split between negative reviews that make me hopeful it has some weight and negative reviews that make me sad for the movie industry, with an icing sugar like topping of rare positive reviews.

 

[Kramodlog]

My favourite alternative title is what Nerdist jas been using for something like the last 9 months, when talking about it; "Batman v Superman, Dong of Justin."

That is just nasty. Even if this movie is craptacular, it doesn't deserve to be compared to Bieber's wiener. Only Trump's fingers mesure up to that.

 

[horacethegrey]

WHile I have not been digging around for them, the typical negative review I've seen is that the movie basically takes what emotional depth it might have had, and replaces it with Grimdark and lots of smashing things up - basically, putting a grey and brown filter on the four color, and hoping that makes it *look* cerebral, without actually having intelligent content.

Which was a problem with Snyder's Watchmen as well. As grim as the comic was, it didn't have muted brown colors that Snyder filtered his adaptation with. The violence was fetishized and stylistic when the comic emphasized realism and consequences of vigilante justice. And whatever genuine human emotion that Moore infused his characters with is muted in favor of emotional bombast.

I'm guessing he's made the same mistakes here too.

 

[Morrus]

For example, one review I saw:

"'Batman v Superman' is an overlong, boring, masochistic, mess of a film that fetishizes violence, makes no sense, and is full of bad acting and distracting CGI. Who would've expected that from Zack Snyder, director of 300, Watchmen, Sucker Punch, and Man of Steel? Thankfully, it also includes Batman's origin story, which is great because no one's ever heard that before."

Y'know, the "Who'd have expected that from Zack Snyder...?" pretty much nullifies that review for me, as it indicates a pre-existing judgement before he even saw the movie. Whether he did or not (and there's no way to tell) it makes it sound to me like the reviewer went in wanting to hate a Zack Snyder film. And one thing with movies - you often get what you want; confirmation bias is stronger in the arts than it is anywhere else. You see what you want to see!

 

[Morrus]

Which was a problem with Snyder's Watchmen as well. As grim as the comic was, it didn't have muted brown colors that Snyder filtered his adaptation with. The violence was fetishized and stylistic when the comic emphasized realism and consequences of vigilante justice. And whatever genuine human emotion that Moore infused his characters with is muted in favor of emotional bombast.

I'm guessing he's made the same mistakes here too.

I really enjoyed Watchmen, 300, and Man of Steel. Those aren't mistakes; they're stylistic choices not to your liking.

 

[horacethegrey]

I really enjoyed Watchmen, 300, and Man of Steel. Those aren't mistakes; they're stylistic choices not to your liking.

Well that's your opinion man. Personally I think it was a mistake to have Snyder direct Watchmen and Man of Steel, as his 'style' was a wrong fit for both properties.

I will admit to liking 300. But hey, it's Frank Miller, and I think his grim n' gritty comics fits Snyder's style quite well.

 

[Morrus]

Well that's your opinion man.

Clearly.

Personally I think it was a mistake to have Snyder direct Watchmen and Man of Steel, as his 'style' was a wrong fit for both properties.

Well that's your opinion man.

 

[Umbran]

I really enjoyed Watchmen, 300, and Man of Steel. Those aren't mistakes; they're stylistic choices not to your liking.

I enjoyed Watchmen, as well.

But, when you are in the business of making *popular* art - art that is supposed to sell to as many as possible, an artistic choice that is not to the liking of enough people can be viewed as a mistake.

For popular media, how do we judge a mistake? By the numbers.

300 was a commercial success. Its sequel (same basic style, with Snyder writing but not directing) didn't even make its production cost back in domestic gross. Watchmen didn't make its production budget back on domestic gross (it cost $130 million to make, and worldwide gross only got $185 million). Man of Steel only barely made back it's production on domestic gross. Sucker Punch only barely it's production budget back in *worldwide* gross. No abject failures, but it isn't like he's been knocking them out of the park regularly.

And, critically speaking, the hits were 300 and Watchmen, and those not by much. Sucker Punch and MoS weren't critical wins, if Rottentomatoes is our judge.

So, in actuality, Snyder is pretty hit-or miss. We could say he makes as many mistakes as he makes solid choices.

Now, in baseball, a 50% hit rate is phenomenal for a batter. But, for most of us, "make as many mistakes as good choices" would typically get us fired. Just sayin'.

 

[Morrus]

I enjoyed Watchmen, as well.

But, when you are in the business of making *popular* art - art that is supposed to sell to as many as possible, an artistic choice that is not to the liking of enough people can be viewed as a mistake.

For popular media, how do we judge a mistake? By the numbers.

300 was a commercial success. Its sequel (same basic style, with Snyder writing but not directing) didn't even make its production cost back in domestic gross. Watchmen didn't make its production budget back on domestic gross (it cost $130 million to make, and worldwide gross only got $185 million). Man of Steel only barely made back it's production on domestic gross. Sucker Punch only barely it's production budget back in *worldwide* gross. No abject failures, but it isn't like he's been knocking them out of the park regularly.

MoS made nearly $700m with production budget of $225m; it did pretty well. There's almost zero chance BvS won't be a commercial success.

Appeals to popularity aren't going to convince me of anything, especially in a conversation about art. But if they *are* used as the metric, then I think the numbers are going to show BvS to be an artistic success. Of course, we won't know for a while, but advance box office tracking is very high.

But we're talking about whether we think we'll like the film or not. I couldn't care less about Warner Brothers' profits (unless I have a percentage I don't know about).