D&D 5E Battlerager Reckless Abandon

[Lejaun]

I see it as an ability that is very impressive early on, but one that does not scale as well later on. When enemies are hitting you for 10-20 points of damage a turn, getting back that HP every turn is very nice and allows for you to "burn" through an opponent by recklessly attacking.

As time goes on, the ability loses its luster. Exposing yourself to the penalty of reckless attack (granting advantage to enemies) starts becoming far more painful and deadly.

The temporary hitpoints are very nice to tack on an ability you already have, but it still requires care and choosing the right moments to use rather than making it a mandatory use every turn ability.

"Healing" five hitpoints a turn is nice, but when it means you get hit more often (keep in mind that 14 AC armor with +2 dex max), it is limited in just how useful it can be.

 

[Burticusb]

So, this is why I think this leads this archtype to more of a traditional tank type roll. You see, that armor is fairly low in AC, but in reality it is only 2 points lower than Plate Armor.

The bigger deal is the advantage the enemies get, but that gets offset from the resistance and the temp HP. The AC isn't really that bad, imagine you have that +2 DEX, so baseline, it's 16, now add a shield, now it's 18. Now say the shield is +2, you now have a 20AC, not bad really.

If you have adamantine armor, you've just removed the risk of crit's... which is really the main concern for this class.

If the enemy is attacking with something other than piercing/bludgeoning/slashing, well then you definitely do not want to be Recklessly Attacking, period.

 

[Blue]

For all the people who say it's too low, think on this. Assume 4 rounds of combats where it's used.

6th level: 4 rages, 18 Con, 71 HP. 4x4x4=64 tHP. Absorbs damage equal to 90% of total HPs.
12th level: 5 rages, 20 Con, 149 HPs. 4x5x5=100 tHP. Absorbs damage equal to 70% of total HPs.
17th level: 6 rages, 20 Con, 209 HPs. 4x5x6=120 tHP. Absorbs damage equal to 57% of total HPs.
20th level: Unlimited rages, using 8 encounters a day, 24 Con, 285 HPs. 4x7x8 = 224 tHP. Absorbs damage equal to 79% of total HPs.

It's like having a huge chunk more HPs that doesn't require any healing resources to recover. Almost double at low levels but still more than half again at high levels. It's painfully good when you actually look at the numbers.

Yes, if you look at it compared to incoming damage at high levels you say "oh, it doesn't do much". That's a true statement. But the fact is that it's there round after round, encounter after encounter, and it adds up. And it gets better when combats last longer.

 

[hejtmane]

I see it as an ability that is very impressive early on, but one that does not scale as well later on. When enemies are hitting you for 10-20 points of damage a turn, getting back that HP every turn is very nice and allows for you to "burn" through an opponent by recklessly attacking.

As time goes on, the ability loses its luster. Exposing yourself to the penalty of reckless attack (granting advantage to enemies) starts becoming far more painful and deadly.

The temporary hitpoints are very nice to tack on an ability you already have, but it still requires care and choosing the right moments to use rather than making it a mandatory use every turn ability.

"Healing" five hitpoints a turn is nice, but when it means you get hit more often (keep in mind that 14 AC armor with +2 dex max), it is limited in just how useful it can be.

With a feat you can get it to 17AC it just makes the class fall behind imo but you are capped at 17 ac without magic armor or 19 if you use a shield

My question is it on par with say a frenzy or totem

Frenzy when it hits 20 con and 14 dex they have 17 ac and can max at 20 by maxing dex and at 20 they leverage the +2 from con for 22 with shield 24 and thy get a bonuses attack and it can be more than 1d4

Totem is the same ac flexibility and they can take half damage to all but psychic which means they can spend a feat to generate more dps GWM with reckless attack with 1/2 damage to most of the attacks and you can have a higher AC.

I find it more wanting than the other Barbarian options

 

[Burticusb]

I'd think that it is close, yes, Frenzy will do more damage, but they have to deal with exhaustion... something I find to be a huge penalty. And really, the damage is not that much larger, considering the bonus' that the extra attack gets will be near the same. Even if it is higher, exhaustion is bad stuff...

And yes, bear totem has more resistances, but they don't resist as much damage since the Battlerager gets the extra 5 Temp HP per round.

As for the DEX + CON combo for super high base AC, yeah that is cool and it works, but good luck combo'ing that with GWM... since there are zero Finesse Heavy Weapons out there.

Unless you have all three stats super high (STR/DEX/CON), which makes you pretty MAD. And maybe I'm a bit biased on this due to the fact that I typically play AL games and any other games I play are normally point buy as well.

In my experience a strength build totem barbarian will typically be at the same AC as the Battlerager anyways.

 

[hejtmane]

I'd think that it is close, yes, Frenzy will do more damage, but they have to deal with exhaustion... something I find to be a huge penalty. And really, the damage is not that much larger, considering the bonus' that the extra attack gets will be near the same. Even if it is higher, exhaustion is bad stuff...

And yes, bear totem has more resistances, but they don't resist as much damage since the Battlerager gets the extra 5 Temp HP per round.

As for the DEX + CON combo for super high base AC, yeah that is cool and it works, but good luck combo'ing that with GWM... since there are zero Finesse Heavy Weapons out there.

Unless you have all three stats super high (STR/DEX/CON), which makes you pretty MAD. And maybe I'm a bit biased on this due to the fact that I typically play AL games and any other games I play are normally point buy as well.

In my experience a strength build totem barbarian will typically be at the same AC as the Battlerager anyways.

No AL on my part and non point buy system generally you can get one stat high and enough in the rest to make it work late levels.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

I think the only big thing to consider is crits, since with reckless attack it causes all enemies to have advantage against you. This literally doubles your chance to get crit'd against. This is why I want my battlerager to find a suit of Adamantine Spiked Armor. With having a lowish AC and every bad guy getting advantage it is no longer about getting hit, but more on getting hit for less.

You could take the Lucky feat to cancel crits, I suppose. Especially under the (silly) official interpretation of how Lucky works with disadvantage.

But if you like the Battlerager resistance + minor temp HP, you will probably like Barbarian 2/Bladelock X even more. Even more temp HP on kill plus Armor of Agathys temp HP + damage. Barbearian 3/Long Death Monk is also interesting for temp HP + Mastery of Death per short rest.

(I just realized--I think the new 2nd level PC one of my players made last night is going for this exact Rage + Armor of Agathys combo. At the time I was like, huh, "a Barbarian/Warlock with only 13 Cha?" But AoA doesn't care about Cha.)

 

[Burticusb]

You could take the Lucky feat to cancel crits, I suppose. Especially under the (silly) official interpretation of how Lucky works with disadvantage.

But if you like the Battlerager resistance + minor temp HP, you will probably like Barbarian 2/Bladelock X even more. Even more temp HP on kill plus Armor of Agathys temp HP + damage. Barbearian 3/Long Death Monk is also interesting for temp HP + Mastery of Death per short rest.

(I just realized--I think the new 2nd level PC one of my players made last night is going for this exact Rage + Armor of Agathys combo. At the time I was like, huh, "a Barbarian/Warlock with only 13 Cha?" But AoA doesn't care about Cha.)

Hmmmm... that's not a bad combo... I will need to look into that.

 

[Burticusb]

The only issue I see here is action economy, unless you know you will be heading into battle, your first round in combat will offer zero damage due to casting of the AoA and raging... I dunno if I'd be okay with that. Will need to run some numbers first to verify it is worth it. Plus, the lower HP from the Warlock class does not sound good...

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

The only issue I see here is action economy, unless you know you will be heading into battle, your first round in combat will offer zero damage due to casting of the AoA and raging... I dunno if I'd be okay with that. Will need to run some numbers first to verify it is worth it. Plus, the lower HP from the Warlock class does not sound good...

You cannot AoA on the same initial round that you Rage, or your rage will end immediately (since you haven't taken damage or attacked anyone since your last turn). AoA needs to be pre-cast in the hour before battle, or cast after you take damage (so Rage doesn't end). But once you do that, then every enemy that strikes you will take 25 damage per strike until your AoA HP run out.

20% lower HP from the Warlock class can be offset either via Fiendlock or AoA temp HP or by casting Vampiric Touch to heal. There's not that much difference really between having 89 HP as a Con 16 Barb 2/Warlock 8 vs. 105 HP as a Con 16 Barb 10, especially after you factor in various sources of temp HP and healaing. All it takes is one Lore Bard on your team who heals 70 HP with a 3rd level slot (or a superhealer who heals 240 HP with that same 3rd level slot) and that 16-HP differential shrinks to insigificance.

There's lots of options. At the moment, Barbarian 2/Death Monk X feels like the most interesting "pure warrior" option to me. An ultra-mobile Barbarian who occasionally power attacks you with his greataxe (40ish points of damage) and punches you in the face twice (Flurry of Blows + Stunning Strike) sounds... amusing. It would be somewhat MAD because of the Wisdom dependency, but even with relatively medium stats like 5 15 13 12 10 14 you could consider it, and [two rolls later] 15 15 9 14 5 17 could be hilarious. Str 18 Dex 14 Con 16 Int 5 Wis 15 Cha 9. Normally I dislike playing low-Int characters (not enough tactical flexibility) but with a Death Monk/Barbarian it genuinely is appropriate--when you see something hostile, run up and smash it until it stops moving. Feats: (1) Great Weapon Master, (6) +2 Str, (10) Resilient (Wis).

While wielding your greataxe and wearing armor, you miss out on the increased Monk unarmed damage and the extra movement, but you can still do Flurry of Blows, at advantage for Reckless Attack. Once you hit Death Monk 11 your ki will be reserved almost exclusively for Flurry of Blows + Mastery of Death. When you feel like being an intimidating, scary tattooed barbarian instead of a face-smashing hulk barbarian, you can spend your action to frighten everybody instead of smashing.

If I were in a certain kind of mindless mood this guy could be a lot of fun, in the right group.