D&D 5E Battlerager Reckless Abandon

[Burticusb]

You cannot AoA on the same initial round that you Rage, or your rage will end immediately (since you haven't taken damage or attacked anyone since your last turn). AoA needs to be pre-cast in the hour before battle, or cast after you take damage (so Rage doesn't end). But once you do that, then every enemy that strikes you will take 25 damage per strike until your AoA HP run out.

20% lower HP from the Warlock class can be offset either via Fiendlock or AoA temp HP or by casting Vampiric Touch to heal. There's not that much difference really between having 89 HP as a Con 16 Barb 2/Warlock 8 vs. 105 HP as a Con 16 Barb 10, especially after you factor in various sources of temp HP and healaing. All it takes is one Lore Bard on your team who heals 70 HP with a 3rd level slot (or a superhealer who heals 240 HP with that same 3rd level slot) and that 16-HP differential shrinks to insigificance.

There's lots of options. At the moment, Barbarian 2/Death Monk X feels like the most interesting "pure warrior" option to me. An ultra-mobile Barbarian who occasionally power attacks you with his greataxe (40ish points of damage) and punches you in the face twice (Flurry of Blows + Stunning Strike) sounds... amusing. It would be somewhat MAD because of the Wisdom dependency, but even with relatively medium stats like 5 15 13 12 10 14 you could consider it, and [two rolls later] 15 15 9 14 5 17 could be hilarious. Str 18 Dex 14 Con 16 Int 5 Wis 15 Cha 9. Normally I dislike playing low-Int characters (not enough tactical flexibility) but with a Death Monk/Barbarian it genuinely is appropriate--when you see something hostile, run up and smash it until it stops moving. Feats: (1) Great Weapon Master, (6) +2 Str, (10) Resilient (Wis).

While wielding your greataxe and wearing armor, you miss out on the increased Monk unarmed damage and the extra movement, but you can still do Flurry of Blows, at advantage for Reckless Attack. Once you hit Death Monk 11 your ki will be reserved almost exclusively for Flurry of Blows + Mastery of Death. When you feel like being an intimidating, scary tattooed barbarian instead of a face-smashing hulk barbarian, you can spend your action to frighten everybody instead of smashing.

If I were in a certain kind of mindless mood this guy could be a lot of fun, in the right group.

That is pretty neat, another thought I had about the warlock. One needs to keep in mind that multiple sources of Temp HP's do not stack. So, I would keep that in mind if you were thinking of multiclassing both battlerager and warlock. You only get to keep the highest... and with a lowish Cha, I think you will find the battlerager will likely give you more per round.

 

[Lejaun]

You cannot AoA on the same initial round that you Rage, or your rage will end immediately (since you haven't taken damage or attacked anyone since your last turn). AoA needs to be pre-cast in the hour before battle, or cast after you take damage (so Rage doesn't end). But once you do that, then every enemy that strikes you will take 25 damage per strike until your AoA HP run out.

20% lower HP from the Warlock class can be offset either via Fiendlock or AoA temp HP or by casting Vampiric Touch to heal. There's not that much difference really between having 89 HP as a Con 16 Barb 2/Warlock 8 vs. 105 HP as a Con 16 Barb 10, especially after you factor in various sources of temp HP and healaing. All it takes is one Lore Bard on your team who heals 70 HP with a 3rd level slot (or a superhealer who heals 240 HP with that same 3rd level slot) and that 16-HP differential shrinks to insigificance.

There's lots of options. At the moment, Barbarian 2/Death Monk X feels like the most interesting "pure warrior" option to me. An ultra-mobile Barbarian who occasionally power attacks you with his greataxe (40ish points of damage) and punches you in the face twice (Flurry of Blows + Stunning Strike) sounds... amusing. It would be somewhat MAD because of the Wisdom dependency, but even with relatively medium stats like 5 15 13 12 10 14 you could consider it, and [two rolls later] 15 15 9 14 5 17 could be hilarious. Str 18 Dex 14 Con 16 Int 5 Wis 15 Cha 9. Normally I dislike playing low-Int characters (not enough tactical flexibility) but with a Death Monk/Barbarian it genuinely is appropriate--when you see something hostile, run up and smash it until it stops moving. Feats: (1) Great Weapon Master, (6) +2 Str, (10) Resilient (Wis).

While wielding your greataxe and wearing armor, you miss out on the increased Monk unarmed damage and the extra movement, but you can still do Flurry of Blows, at advantage for Reckless Attack. Once you hit Death Monk 11 your ki will be reserved almost exclusively for Flurry of Blows + Mastery of Death. When you feel like being an intimidating, scary tattooed barbarian instead of a face-smashing hulk barbarian, you can spend your action to frighten everybody instead of smashing.

If I were in a certain kind of mindless mood this guy could be a lot of fun, in the right group.

Minor adjustment: if taking the barbarian class, you'd probably want to take it to three at least for the path....maybe even to four for the ASI/Feat.

 

[Lejaun]

With a feat you can get it to 17AC it just makes the class fall behind imo but you are capped at 17 ac without magic armor or 19 if you use a shield

My question is it on par with say a frenzy or totem

Frenzy when it hits 20 con and 14 dex they have 17 ac and can max at 20 by maxing dex and at 20 they leverage the +2 from con for 22 with shield 24 and thy get a bonuses attack and it can be more than 1d4

Totem is the same ac flexibility and they can take half damage to all but psychic which means they can spend a feat to generate more dps GWM with reckless attack with 1/2 damage to most of the attacks and you can have a higher AC.

I find it more wanting than the other Barbarian options

Personally, I find the Frenzy path one of the worst of the barbarian options unless you have a DM who doesn't really care about exhaustion. Exhaustion catches up really quickly, especially if you have multiple encounters a day. In one big fight, the Frenzy path kicks butt.....but in several small fights its much weaker as exhaustion levels potentially build up.

From a power perspective, I find the Bear path the most powerful (especially if the person chose to be a half-orc). The resistance to almost all damage is huge. The first thing my DM does in a tough encounter where he sees that I'm shrugging off physical damage is to send magic after me. No resistance as a battlerager to that. In the long term, as you get more ASI or magic items to increase statistics, it becomes even more powerful as you get the three key stats raised.

For AC, I think you have to keep in mind that other barbarian paths can do the same thing but better. Barbarians can use medium armor and shields, so you could theoretically have them wear half-plate (AC 15 + 2 dex max) or a breastplate (AC 14 +2 dex max) to be equal or on par wearing armor. Once statistics catch up, they can go unarmored using Dex + Con to pass that up. All barbarians can use a shield, so that essentially balances completely out.

Its also important to think that not everyone is going to have a 20 Constitution, so that +5 hp a round isn't guaranteed. It's more likely to be +2 or +3 a round early on, and then +4 mid-game.

 

[Lejaun]

So, this is why I think this leads this archtype to more of a traditional tank type roll. You see, that armor is fairly low in AC, but in reality it is only 2 points lower than Plate Armor.

The bigger deal is the advantage the enemies get, but that gets offset from the resistance and the temp HP. The AC isn't really that bad, imagine you have that +2 DEX, so baseline, it's 16, now add a shield, now it's 18. Now say the shield is +2, you now have a 20AC, not bad really.

If you have adamantine armor, you've just removed the risk of crit's... which is really the main concern for this class.

If the enemy is attacking with something other than piercing/bludgeoning/slashing, well then you definitely do not want to be Recklessly Attacking, period.

We just have to keep in mind that if you have a +2 shield, so too can other barbarians. They can match armor AC (or even beat it). Also, early on when it matters and we get the reckless attack hitpoints, it is likely that the ability score is going to offer +5 hp per round of reckless attack, but +2 or +3 a round. Once we get to the point of getting the +5 bonus, enemies will be hitting harder for more damage than the additional increase in ASI is able to offset. It's at that point when ability scores start creeping up that the bear path starts taking over in power I think.

 

[Burticusb]

I'm loving the theory crafting mentality going on here, it is really helping me shape my next character plan. So, I totally agree that the Bear totem blows almost if not every barbarian option out of the water.

Not a single other option offers even close to the defensive versatility that the Bear Totem gets. However, a battlerager does soak up more straight up P/B/S then any of the others due to the Temp HP bonus.

However, the Bear Totem extended list of resistances will likely come into more and therefore be a much more powerful of a choice.

 

[hejtmane]

Personally, I find the Frenzy path one of the worst of the barbarian options unless you have a DM who doesn't really care about exhaustion. Exhaustion catches up really quickly, especially if you have multiple encounters a day. In one big fight, the Frenzy path kicks butt.....but in several small fights its much weaker as exhaustion levels potentially build up.

From a power perspective, I find the Bear path the most powerful (especially if the person chose to be a half-orc). The resistance to almost all damage is huge. The first thing my DM does in a tough encounter where he sees that I'm shrugging off physical damage is to send magic after me. No resistance as a battlerager to that. In the long term, as you get more ASI or magic items to increase statistics, it becomes even more powerful as you get the three key stats raised.

For AC, I think you have to keep in mind that other barbarian paths can do the same thing but better. Barbarians can use medium armor and shields, so you could theoretically have them wear half-plate (AC 15 + 2 dex max) or a breastplate (AC 14 +2 dex max) to be equal or on par wearing armor. Once statistics catch up, they can go unarmored using Dex + Con to pass that up. All barbarians can use a shield, so that essentially balances completely out.

Its also important to think that not everyone is going to have a 20 Constitution, so that +5 hp a round isn't guaranteed. It's more likely to be +2 or +3 a round early on, and then +4 mid-game.

Me personally I would never go frenzy; I think the totem is the best build in the game for barbarians already had that argument even a board and sword Barb.

I done that on a build I took tough over the con to get to more HP I lose a + to save but that is the trade off for more HP.

What got me about the Battlerager (i read the books) is he did all these attacks throwing himself in the air landing on creatures etc. and using his fist and forearms it left me like blah in SCAG and then their should have been a damage charge that had a chance to knock the target prone. Then the armor should have had spiked gloves that where weapon attacks. I mean that is how I would have done it myself I was overall disappointed in the entire Battlerager I would rework quite a few things myself and make changes.

 

[Lejaun]

Me personally I would never go frenzy; I think the totem is the best build in the game for barbarians already had that argument even a board and sword Barb.

I done that on a build I took tough over the con to get to more HP I lose a + to save but that is the trade off for more HP.

What got me about the Battlerager (i read the books) is he did all these attacks throwing himself in the air landing on creatures etc. and using his fist and forearms it left me like blah in SCAG and then their should have been a damage charge that had a chance to knock the target prone. Then the armor should have had spiked gloves that where weapon attacks. I mean that is how I would have done it myself I was overall disappointed in the entire Battlerager I would rework quite a few things myself and make changes.

I agree a thousand times over. I love the battlerager class, but the rules set forth in SCAP lacks greatly in getting that ripping, tearing, wild animal berserking battlerager feel to it.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

Minor adjustment: if taking the barbarian class, you'd probably want to take it to three at least for the path....maybe even to four for the ASI/Feat.

As a Barb/Warlock, I might eventually take Barb 3 for Bear resistance and an extra Rage, but it's not a priority compared to bumping up my spell slots and ASIs. I would definitely not take Barb 4 because then I lose access to True Polymorph/Foresight.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

From a power perspective, I find the Bear path the most powerful (especially if the person chose to be a half-orc). The resistance to almost all damage is huge. The first thing my DM does in a tough encounter where he sees that I'm shrugging off physical damage is to send magic after me. No resistance as a battlerager to that. In the long term, as you get more ASI or magic items to increase statistics, it becomes even more powerful as you get the three key stats raised.

If I wanted to be take down a Barbarian with magic (either as a DM or as an NPC in-character), my first thought would not be "elemental damage spells" but rather "Hold Person". Now the barbarian can't attack, and either he gets auto-critted every round, or (if you prioritize another target instead of the barb) his Rage disappears after the first round because he's not attacking. (Or both: first the Rage ends and then he starts getting auto-critted.) And neither Battleragers nor Bear Totem Resistance does a thing to protect you.

Tasha's Hideous Laughter, Hypnotic Pattern, Hypnotic Gaze, Fear... there are so many ways to mess with a barbarian using magic, and Bear totem is useless against most of them.

 

[Eric Edge]

I see it as an ability that is very impressive early on, but one that does not scale as well later on. When enemies are hitting you for 10-20 points of damage a turn, getting back that HP every turn is very nice and allows for you to "burn" through an opponent by recklessly attacking.

As time goes on, the ability loses its luster. Exposing yourself to the penalty of reckless attack (granting advantage to enemies) starts becoming far more painful and deadly.

The temporary hitpoints are very nice to tack on an ability you already have, but it still requires care and choosing the right moments to use rather than making it a mandatory use every turn ability.

"Healing" five hitpoints a turn is nice, but when it means you get hit more often (keep in mind that 14 AC armor with +2 dex max), it is limited in just how useful it can be.

I play a Battlerager and just received a Cloak of Displacement. I was contemplating using it to reckless attack most every round. In this way, I don't take the normal penalty of advantage on attacks against me since the disadvantage of the cloak should cancel that out.

Do temporary hit points of Reckless Abandon stack round over round? SCAG is ambiguous on that point since it only says the temp hp disappear after rage ends. Cause with my Cloak I could see stacked temporary points to be quite nice.