Battling for control of undead

[Frost]

Hi Folks,

I’m looking for rules information regarding the control/commanding of undead. Here is my dilemma:

I’m running a party through Rappan Athuk which is, of course, full of evil clerics who can control/command undead. One of my players is running a necromancer who has, no surprise, undead minions.

Here is my question? Can these clerics take control of his undead? The animate dead spell says that created undead remain under the caster’s control “indefinitely.” However, if an evil cleric scores high enough on his rebuke check, he can command undead. Anyone know if there is an official rule for this somewhere?

Unless I find some official rule, my plan is to allow the cleric his rebuke check. If the cleric rolls high enough to command the undead, I’ll have an opposed Charisma check to see who controls them.

Thoughts?

 

[Napftor]

Hi Frost. Nothing official here but I wrote something in my Behind the Spells series dealing with this topic. Maybe you'll find it useful...

If you are of equal or greater caster level (arcane or divine) than the controller (the spellcaster responsible for animating the undead in the first place), you might be able to wrest control of some of his undead. The component required is nothing more than your own blood. After opening a wound on your hand (inflicting two hit points of damage), you must succeed a melee touch attack against either the caster or one of his controlled undead. Failure incurs no ill effects aside from likely provoking an attack of opportunity. A successful touch allows your blood to access the magical “back door” of the animate dead spell by making opposed Concentration checks with the controlling caster. If the controller wins, the link is never established and you must succeed another melee touch attack to try again. If you win, you automatically know how many Hit Dice worth of undead the caster currently controls. You can then attempt to take control of some or all of these undead by sacrificing one hit point per HD of undead. Any undead taken over in this way can only be controlled for one round per caster level before control reverts back to the original controller. This variant rule is applicable even to the new animating weapon quality presented below.

[For example: A 7th-level cleric decides to try and bond with his 9th-level necromancer foe. After succeeding both the touch attack and opposed Concentration rolls, he knows that the necromancer currently controls 28 HD worth of undead and how those HD are distributed. The cleric decides to take control of two owlbear skeletons (or 10 HD) and immediately sacrifices 10 hit points. She now has total control of those skeletons for 7 rounds, after which control reverts back to the necromancer.]

 

[FreeXenon]

What I am thinking would happen is that the NPC Clerics would Rebuke to control as a standard action and then issue a command, and then the undead would act on their initiative. The PC would attempt to regain control by Rebuking on his turn.

You may want to allow either to ready an action to counter-rebuke - kind of like a counter-spelling and then go by the higher turning check.

 

[Gerion of Mercadia]

Check out the rules on "bolstering undead" for this one.

The NPC's can rebuke and potentially control his undead if they succeed on the turning checks, just as if the Undead were uncontrolled in the first place.

 

[JRR_Talking]

further to this thread

how many undead can u control with a control undead spell?
i assume another spellcaster can come along and try and cast the same spell at them
what if an evil cleric tries to command undead u control via a control undead spell?

ta

John

this all came up in last nites session

 

[hanniball]

further to this thread

how many undead can u control with a control undead spell?
i assume another spellcaster can come along and try and cast the same spell at them
what if an evil cleric tries to command undead u control via a control undead spell?

Control Undead specifies under 'Targets': Up to 2 HD/level of undead creatures, no two of which can be more than 30 ft. apart

A second casting of this spell by another spellcaster would wrest the control of the undead from you, IMO.

To the OP, there is no official ruling on this as far as I know. An opposed caster level tjeck may suffice, being that the Necromancer has no turning ability of her own.

Either way...just my 2 cp

 

[JRR_Talking]

"Control Undead specifies under 'Targets': Up to 2 HD/level of undead creatures, no two of which can be more than 30 ft. apart"

yeah, but if cast on some more undead, and then some more. Can a 4th level sorceror control 12 human-zombies over 3 castings?

OR

does implicitly say.refer that the max undead you can control with a spell is 2hd/level.