ScionJustice
First Post
What are the best use for shadow conjuration and evocation spells? I just feel like I'm missing something here, they look very weak to me.
-
The VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX is LIVE! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Best use for shadow spells?
- Thread starter ScionJustice
- Start date
You can use them to spontaneously access the appropriate spell you need without having to know/prepare it beforehand. This spell will have a casting time of just 1 standard action regardless of its actual casting time, and will not require any material components.
Also, since it ultimately remains an illusion spell, you only need spell focus: illusion (and it applies evenly to the conjuration and evocation spells you mimic). Quite fun if your illusionist has banned evocation (since the more useful spells don't actually deal damage) and conjuration.
Example1: Your 8th lv party needs to get to some place in a jiffy. So your sorc casts shadow conjuration 4 times to mimic phantom steed (normally a very situational spell not worth preparing beforehand or wasting a precious spell known slot on). Its normal casting time of 10 minutes is shortened to 1 standard action (since you are really casting shadow conjuration). Excellent if you are trying to give chase after someone and can't afford taking 40 minutes to prepare.
Example2: Your illusionist who has evocation banned can still use greater shadow evocation to cast contingency. Again, the casting time of 10 minutes is shortened to 1 standard action. Or replicate forcecage (bypassing the need for the 1500gp material component).
Also, since it ultimately remains an illusion spell, you only need spell focus: illusion (and it applies evenly to the conjuration and evocation spells you mimic). Quite fun if your illusionist has banned evocation (since the more useful spells don't actually deal damage) and conjuration.
Example1: Your 8th lv party needs to get to some place in a jiffy. So your sorc casts shadow conjuration 4 times to mimic phantom steed (normally a very situational spell not worth preparing beforehand or wasting a precious spell known slot on). Its normal casting time of 10 minutes is shortened to 1 standard action (since you are really casting shadow conjuration). Excellent if you are trying to give chase after someone and can't afford taking 40 minutes to prepare.
Example2: Your illusionist who has evocation banned can still use greater shadow evocation to cast contingency. Again, the casting time of 10 minutes is shortened to 1 standard action. Or replicate forcecage (bypassing the need for the 1500gp material component).
Particle_Man
Explorer
Weak but versatile. Shadow Evocation is good once you find out the vulnerability of the enemy you are fighting. Shadow Conjuration apparently includes teleports and somehow planar binding (shades?) although I am not sure if you are sorta binding a real thing or really binding a sorta thing.
Good for sorcerors, who don't have a wide selection of spells. Also a way for specialists to get around the "no evocations or conjurations" problem if those are their banned spells.
Good for sorcerors, who don't have a wide selection of spells. Also a way for specialists to get around the "no evocations or conjurations" problem if those are their banned spells.
Herzog
Adventurer
Good for specialist wizards, because it might allow access to otherwise prohibited schools.
Good for wizards, because it allows them to prepare one spell and have a whole school of spells to choose from when the time is there.
Good for sorcerers and Bards, because it allows them to have one spell known and actually have access to a complete school.
And the casting time helps too
I just thought of something: I think my Artificer is going to build/buy himself a wand of Shadow Conjuration.....
I had a hard time figuring out which spells where worth it to get a wand of. this one actually escaped me (while I was already planning to get the same spell for my bard in another campaign....)
Good for wizards, because it allows them to prepare one spell and have a whole school of spells to choose from when the time is there.
Good for sorcerers and Bards, because it allows them to have one spell known and actually have access to a complete school.
And the casting time helps too
I just thought of something: I think my Artificer is going to build/buy himself a wand of Shadow Conjuration.....
I had a hard time figuring out which spells where worth it to get a wand of. this one actually escaped me (while I was already planning to get the same spell for my bard in another campaign....)
Jack Simth
First Post
Let's see...
Due to the double-save, the Shadow line of spells is mostly useful when you can do one of:
1) Pump the DC to insane levels, so it doesn't matter that they get two saves
2) When you can use them in such a way that the save doesn't matter (anything where you're casting it on yourself, essentially, but also if you're just using it for flanking).
3) When you can avoid expensive components, and spam the effect.
Case one should be pretty obvious - if they don't save, it has full effect on them.
Case 2 is slightly less obvious. For instance, Greater Shadow Evocation can duplicate Contingency - and as you can give up the save, you have full chance of it affecting you - so the Dimension Door works every time. The regular Shadow Conjuration can duplicate Phantom Steed - and as you can voluntarily fail a save, it's just as effective as a regular Phantom Steed, except for the hit points. Further, if the only purpose of the shadow-creature is flanking, then the save doesn't matter (it still threatens, even if it does a lot less damage), so the standard-action disposable flanker for the Rogue of the party is very handy. Technically, Shades can duplicate Greater Teleport, Greater Planar Binding, or Draconic Ally (Spell Compendium) - but that's more likely an oversight than anything else, and many DM's (not all) will impose the subschool restrictions from the lower-level versions of the spell to Shades.
Case 3 is an odd one. Sepia Snake Sigil is a Conjuration(Creation) spell - so it can be duplicated. However, Shadow Conjuration (and company) don't inherit the components line - which means it's free. Ditto for a Shades Magnificent Mansion (no focus), and so on. It also means that if you somehow get separated from your component pouch, you can still cast stuff.
Due to the double-save, the Shadow line of spells is mostly useful when you can do one of:
1) Pump the DC to insane levels, so it doesn't matter that they get two saves
2) When you can use them in such a way that the save doesn't matter (anything where you're casting it on yourself, essentially, but also if you're just using it for flanking).
3) When you can avoid expensive components, and spam the effect.
Case one should be pretty obvious - if they don't save, it has full effect on them.
Case 2 is slightly less obvious. For instance, Greater Shadow Evocation can duplicate Contingency - and as you can give up the save, you have full chance of it affecting you - so the Dimension Door works every time. The regular Shadow Conjuration can duplicate Phantom Steed - and as you can voluntarily fail a save, it's just as effective as a regular Phantom Steed, except for the hit points. Further, if the only purpose of the shadow-creature is flanking, then the save doesn't matter (it still threatens, even if it does a lot less damage), so the standard-action disposable flanker for the Rogue of the party is very handy. Technically, Shades can duplicate Greater Teleport, Greater Planar Binding, or Draconic Ally (Spell Compendium) - but that's more likely an oversight than anything else, and many DM's (not all) will impose the subschool restrictions from the lower-level versions of the spell to Shades.
Case 3 is an odd one. Sepia Snake Sigil is a Conjuration(Creation) spell - so it can be duplicated. However, Shadow Conjuration (and company) don't inherit the components line - which means it's free. Ditto for a Shades Magnificent Mansion (no focus), and so on. It also means that if you somehow get separated from your component pouch, you can still cast stuff.
StreamOfTheSky
Adventurer
My cleric has the illusion domain, and typically uses his shadow conjuration for greater mage armor. Getting +6 AC basically all day is worth it.
EDIT: Too late to check, but I think Create magic Tattoo frm Spell Compendium can be duplicated. I recall planing to abuse that once he entered shadowcraft mage...
EDIT: Too late to check, but I think Create magic Tattoo frm Spell Compendium can be duplicated. I recall planing to abuse that once he entered shadowcraft mage...
Last edited:
StreamOfTheSky
Adventurer
Not as far as I know. And the use applies the same to Shadow Conj: Mage Armor, if limited to core, it's just a weaker use.
Mage Armor :: d20srd.org
There is no SR normally. Granted, that doesn't matter for shaow usage, but it helps show the spell is not being used offensively. It is a force effect, which normally allow SR, but in this case does not because the only one "affected" is the target, not the people having a harder time hitting him.
The saving throw line has nothing for attackers. The only person saving against the spell is the target, a save he can choose to fail. Seems the same as any other use of a shadow spell for defensive buff: it works at full force at all times, assuming you choose to fail the save. My interpretation, at least.
(And since my character worships the god of shadows, relying on his faith in the strength of the shadow to keep him safe from harm is an awesome example of mechanics = flavor in my case )
Mage Armor :: d20srd.org
There is no SR normally. Granted, that doesn't matter for shaow usage, but it helps show the spell is not being used offensively. It is a force effect, which normally allow SR, but in this case does not because the only one "affected" is the target, not the people having a harder time hitting him.
The saving throw line has nothing for attackers. The only person saving against the spell is the target, a save he can choose to fail. Seems the same as any other use of a shadow spell for defensive buff: it works at full force at all times, assuming you choose to fail the save. My interpretation, at least.
(And since my character worships the god of shadows, relying on his faith in the strength of the shadow to keep him safe from harm is an awesome example of mechanics = flavor in my case
)
Salthorae
Imperial Mountain Dew Taster
I have seen this posted a couple of times in this thread and I'm not sure where it's coming from. All teleport spells are Conjuration (Teleportation) in 3.5, and the Shadow Conjuration tree of spells only covers Conjuration (Summoning) and Conjuration (Creation) spells per the SRD
I'd be interested in knowing how people are reading any of these spells as covering any Teleport spells though...
Similar Threads
