Blade Singer Ac Bonuses

[Grishnak]

Whilst in our sessions over the last few weeks there have been numerous discussions involving our Blade Singers AC bonuses.
It started again last night between 2 of the other players, the DM and the Blade Singer Player. They were asking how he managed to get a 31 touch AC which he has broken down to the DM's acceptence on multiple occasions the main part of the discussion though always revolves around word play. In the rules it states that a Blade Singer when wielding his weopon gains the modifiers to AC. Now the players say that to wield the weopon and gain the bonuses you have to be in combat, whereas the DM accepts that if the weopon is in his hands with no threat he gains the bonuses aswell as being in combat. Is this just going to be 1 of those DM decides things or is there official rules to the stats?

Please Reply as it takes upto half an hour per discussion going through everything and people's wording of the rules etc

 

[hong]

"Wield" means "in hand". No problem with the DM ruling there.

 

[Grishnak]

"Wield" means "in hand". No problem with the DM ruling there.

The exact same thing I said, but both players with complaints are ex DM's so don't expect players to have high touch AC

 

[TheEvil]

The exact same thing I said, but both players with complaints are ex DM's so don't expect players to have high touch AC

They'll get over it.

Out of curiousity, how DID he get a 31 touch AC?
I once had a 3.0E githzeri rogue who I managed to get up to a 27 touch, and I thought I was doing pretty good.

 

[Grishnak]

They'll get over it.

Out of curiousity, how DID he get a 31 touch AC?
I once had a 3.0E githzeri rogue who I managed to get up to a 27 touch, and I thought I was doing pretty good.

I don't have the full details, but I know he has dodge +1, Dexterity either +4 or +5, Intelligence +8 other than that I don't know the pluses of items but he has items with high pluses that all effect the touch AC and all do stack together. There are 5 people in total, 1 DM - 4 players all 20th level, I will try and get the info off him and type it up here that way all arguments can be sorted out in future.

 

[Zephyrus]

One argument perhaps that you could use to debunk the 'only in combat' argument they are using is that. As long as the Bladesinger is not flat-footed/Surprized. That any attack (attempted action that would require a roll be made vs the bladesingers Touch AC) can be considered an initiation of combat. Thus he's in combat and his bonus to AC because a weapon in hand during combat is considered weilded.

Of course theirs other ways to initiate combat but if they do not target the blade-singers AC then the argument is moot. Such as casting a spell targeting the blade singer requiring a Fortitude, Reflex or Willpower save. It has no bearing on his touch AC. But attempting to do so would result in the the Bladesinger being on his guard/combat ready and thus get his AC bonus (again, provided he's not surprized).

The only truely 'gray' area I can conceivably see is Traps that make attack rolls. Here it becomes more difficult to determine exactly if the bladesinger is surprized. Here, I would have to be inclined to say that if they are not aware of the trap they dont get it as to a degree they are flat-footed. If they are aware however an cana be on guard to the attacks I'd say they could keep it.

Naturally if the bladesinger had uncanny dodge they are able to always get their bonus cause they always retain their dex bonus to AC and thus dont loose their dex bonus to AC/not surprized/not flat-footed

So it winds down to being aware of the attack if the weapon is in hand (or having Uncanny dodge to make you 'always aware' effectively).

 

[Christopher Lambert]

What level is he? Which version of the bladesinger are you using? What does his gear look like?