Book of Vile Darkness!

Eric, tell me how much postage costs on a 50 pound box--at the absolute cheapest rate possible, mind you--and if it's worth it, I'll send you the money before you ship. ;)

(Actually, I'm only half-joking...)
 

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EricNoah

Adventurer
I wish I could make myself more clear. Or maybe I'm being clear but people are just stubborn. :)

It's perfectly ok here at EN World to say how much you dislike a product. Feel free to say, "Dragon 300 stank to high heaven. It was gross and disgusting and pointless and worthless." You're sharing your opinion.

It's not ok here at EN World to rudely judge other people's tastes. Example: "You want to deal with rape and slavery in your game? You must be immature."

In short, say what you think and how you feel. But don't turn it into an attack on your fellow gamer. That's nothing short of ... immature.
 

William Ronald

Explorer
Remember, people, we can disagree without being disagreeable. If you disagree with something, state why you disagree with it. Personal attacks seldom have anything to do with the validity of a statement. (So, even if I dislike person X, he may still have a valid statement -- even if it is only that the sky is blue.)

Eric, I hope you can make it to the Chicago Gameday. (In retrospect, I wish I had chatted with more people at the EN World Gathering at Gen Con. At the risk of HIJACKING this thread yet again, I suggest that people attending Gen Con So Cal organize a gathering. It is always good to see people and meet them in person.)

There are valid reasons for people wanting or not wanting the Book of Vile Darkness. Some may be offended by the subject matter or it might not fit into their campaign. Others may find it useful for adding details to their campaign or may wish to have the statistics for a truly vile adversary for their villains ... or a patron for a party of evil characters. Regardless, I respect the right of people to disagree. Heck, I do not only lack all the answers, I am not even sure if I know all of the questions.
 

Silverthrone

Banned
Banned

You know what, though? Just 'cause a mod slapped someone around doesn't mean I'm inviting you to do the same.


Yeah, only people with authority get to break rules and make asses of themselves and get away with it. I have known some hypcritical admins, but few have ever blatantly admited it like that.

EricNoah said:


It's perfectly ok here at EN World to say how much you dislike a product. Feel free to say, "Dragon 300 stank to high heaven. It was gross and disgusting and pointless and worthless." You're sharing your opinion.

It's not ok here at EN World to rudely judge other people's tastes. Example: "You want to deal with rape and slavery in your game? You must be immature."

In short, say what you think and how you feel. But don't turn it into an attack on your fellow gamer. That's nothing short of ... immature.

And again you chastise to not do something and then do it yourself.
 

Celebrim

Legend
I've never seen, read, or otherwise direclty experienced either Dragon 300 or BoVD. I have no strong opinion on the contents of either one, though from the well voiced opinions (and some not so well voiced opinions, but even those are informative) of others on the board I have some suspicions. But, who knows, I could pick BoVD up and discover to my surprise that it is the best written RPG book in history.

But, I have absolutely no interest in it at present, nor can I begin to fathom at this time what they'd put in it that would interest me.

But, I've said that all before.

What I do dislike is how this product is being marketed and why, and I very much dislike that a product that could in fact contain objectionable material (if the description of corpsebond I've heard is in any way close to the point) is rather deliberately targeting a younger rebellious crowd.

Not to suggest that everyone who is going to buy this product is a 14 year old kid new to the hobby - I'm sure that a large number of counter examples could be pointed at of mature people who have a legitimate interest in increasing the depth of thier play - but mostly I'm inclined to agree WotC is using words like 'mature' (I wish they'd just come out and say 'naughty' or something more to the point) and 'vile' to mean Nickelodean style goop and gross out with a fantasy spin.

And don't get me wrong, that wouldn't offend me in the slightest (well maybe a tad). None of that's really new in published D&D anyway. Let the kids giggle over vomit and eviceration. They are going to do it anyway. What bothers me is confusing that sort of stuff that really isn't evil at all (or is just merely over the top) with stuff that really is crossing a line that probably shouldn't be crossed in a book that is, much as I love RPG's, ultimately just a form of entertainment.

But who knows. I won't really pass judgement on the thing until I see it. Maybe it will be RPG high art - a classic like I6, the DL modules, and that Dungeon MotRD adventure that featured the flesh golem whose name escapes me at the moment. (???) But I wouldn't bet on it.

And for the record, I am stubborn, but I don't think that a person that wants to deal with slavery and rape in his campaign is immature. Heck, I think that not dealing with the issue of slavery seriously and frankly is one of TPM's many unendearing qualities.
However, I do think that it is possible to deal with rape in a very immature fashion, and worse an entirely obscene fashion, and that there are some things that just shouldn't be sensationalized for the purpose of making money.
 
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Celebrim

Legend
Silverthrone: Lay off, 'k? :) However well you mean, I can, and prefer, to fight my own battles. I'm not easily offended, nor do I expect the people I talk with to be easily offended. Asbestos long johns please, 'k? Nobody here is quarreling with anyone yet.
 

EricNoah

Adventurer
Silverthrone said:

Yeah, only people with authority get to break rules and make asses of themselves and get away with it. I have known some hypcritical admins, but few have ever blatantly admited it like that.



Blah blah blah.
 

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