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Books that Improve Skills
- Thread starter Androrc
- Start date
xigbar
Explorer
Just combine the rules for making items that give skill bonuses and the rules for maing books that bestow inherent ability score bonuses.
That's precisely what I was thinking. I'm asking here though to check if it won't be imbalanced or cause some unforeseen problems.
xigbar
Explorer
Not really. There are already lots of established ways to make borked diplomancers and such. It'll probably less cost effective than actually wearing a cheaper item, and you could cap the total inherent bonus you could have.
Jimlock
Adventurer
hmmm...
Not a bad idea.
Ability manuals and tomes:
Price:
27,500 gp (+1)
55,000 gp (+2)
82,500 gp (+3)
110,000 gp (+4)
137,500 gp (+5)
Cost:
1,250 gp + 5,100 XP (+1)
2,500 gp + 10,200 XP (+2)
3,750 gp + 15,300 XP (+3)
5,000 gp + 20,400 XP (+4)
6,250 gp + 25,500 XP (+5)
lets see...
Bringing those prices and costs down to half for a range of +2, +4, +6, +8, +10 ...
what do you say?
Not a bad idea.
Ability manuals and tomes:
Price:
27,500 gp (+1)
55,000 gp (+2)
82,500 gp (+3)
110,000 gp (+4)
137,500 gp (+5)
Cost:
1,250 gp + 5,100 XP (+1)
2,500 gp + 10,200 XP (+2)
3,750 gp + 15,300 XP (+3)
5,000 gp + 20,400 XP (+4)
6,250 gp + 25,500 XP (+5)
lets see...
Bringing those prices and costs down to half for a range of +2, +4, +6, +8, +10 ...
what do you say?
One of my PC's has acquired (I have no idea where or when this was given) a book that grants a +5 on any Knowledge check, given that you have enough time to read it. This item might be from the Magic Item Compendium.
I have a problem with it. The group just passes is to each other whenever they have the time to use it. +5 for nearly every important research based question.
Anyhow, just thought I throw this in the discussion.
Aluvial
I have a problem with it. The group just passes is to each other whenever they have the time to use it. +5 for nearly every important research based question.
Anyhow, just thought I throw this in the discussion.
Aluvial
cjosephs1s
First Post
Actually yes there is precendent just not from WotC. Mongoose Publishing's Encyclopaedia Arcane: Tomes and Libraries...Secrets of the Written Word is a book about books if you will. Many of the books listed are kind of magical in nature and give a permanant bonus to a skill check. Or when doing research on a subject give a temp bonus to knowledge checks. Its even 3.5 
WARNING: THE NEXT PART IS LONG AND EXTENSIVE AND THEORYCRAFT USING SOME MATHEMATICS
As for making Tomes and Manuals that give "inherent bonuses" once read sure. Anythings possible with magic its just getting an agreed upon price with your DM. I'm going to disagree with Jimlocks pricing method and say its too expensive. Sorry Jimlock but I do give you kudos for the methodology. Here's why I think its a bit overpriced.
For creating magic items you can enchant items with skill check bonuses up to +20 in a non epic campaign. I'm going to assume more in an epic one using their x10 approach to cost. So what is the base cost to enchant a magic item to give a continual bonus to a skill check? .5(bonus squared x 20). So for example you have a +10 bonus squared (100) x 20x.5 = 1000gp plus some xp cost and perhaps some materials cost for the item. This is exactly 1% the cost of your Ability bonuses. So I'm going to argue that the cost to create these magical "books" should also be 1% of the price of that for the ability books. So if you want a +1 skill book it will cost you 12.5g + 51xp to make. Or you can buy one for 275gp.
Now I think some of you will say: THIS IS WAAAYYY TO CHEAP!!!! Well lets look at the alternatives for enchancing your skills magically. The first way is to just create an item of +1 skill bonus for 0g. .5(bonus squared x20) Or if you don't want to give up another slot you can double the cost of this second enchantment 2(.5(bonus squared x20)) =20gp. Now while this was a very inexpensive example lets look at the extreme: +20
New magic item. .5(20x20x20)=8000gp+materials+320xp
Adding skill to existing magic item: 2(.5(20x20x20)=16000gp+materials+640xp
Making Book: 20x12.5gp+ 51xp x 20=250gp+1020xp (market price of 5320).
Wait? A +20 book is cheaper than the magic item? That can't be right? Well actually it can because my initial assumption was slightly flawed and I post this because like all good new theory and magecraft the process should be documented so others can learn. My initial assumption forgot about how epic pricing works for abilities. I continued to use the standard pricing model and while it still is a constant 1% ratio the numbers changed on me. So now lets test the new theory which I think will work (if not well maybe someone smarter than me can find out where I messed up and fix it).
Ok first lets test skill check at 10 to make sure it works out.
New magic item: .5(10X10X20)=1000GP +25XP
Adding to existing magic item 2(.5(10x10x20)=2000gp+50xp
Book of Skill 12.5gpx10+51xpx10=125gp+510xp (2675gp)
Now lets apply a modifier of x10 to the base cost to create a +20 bonus
New magic item: 10(.5(10x10x20))+1000gp=11000gp + 440
Adding to existing magic item 10(2(.5(10x10x20)))+2000gp=22000gp +880xp
Book of Skill: 12.5x10x10 + 51xp x10x10 +125gp+510xp=1375gp+5610xp (30800gp)
There...Now the math seems to work out slightly better than before and the cost seems to be inline with what they should be for the items.
With Jimlocks system the cost benefit just isn't worth it. I would just add the skill modifier to an existing magic item (even with the enchanced cost as laid out by my formula at +20 or the original one in the DMG) and it would still be significantly cheaper than using a book of the same caliber. 137000gp vs 2000gp.
Hopefully this presents a reasoned, logical, balanced way to give PCs a Book of Skill that incorporates existing rules on magic item creation. A special thanks to Jimlock for initial logic behind my pricing model (I will try and give xp as soon as I'm done posting).
WARNING: THE NEXT PART IS LONG AND EXTENSIVE AND THEORYCRAFT USING SOME MATHEMATICS
As for making Tomes and Manuals that give "inherent bonuses" once read sure. Anythings possible with magic its just getting an agreed upon price with your DM. I'm going to disagree with Jimlocks pricing method and say its too expensive. Sorry Jimlock but I do give you kudos for the methodology. Here's why I think its a bit overpriced.
For creating magic items you can enchant items with skill check bonuses up to +20 in a non epic campaign. I'm going to assume more in an epic one using their x10 approach to cost. So what is the base cost to enchant a magic item to give a continual bonus to a skill check? .5(bonus squared x 20). So for example you have a +10 bonus squared (100) x 20x.5 = 1000gp plus some xp cost and perhaps some materials cost for the item. This is exactly 1% the cost of your Ability bonuses. So I'm going to argue that the cost to create these magical "books" should also be 1% of the price of that for the ability books. So if you want a +1 skill book it will cost you 12.5g + 51xp to make. Or you can buy one for 275gp.
Now I think some of you will say: THIS IS WAAAYYY TO CHEAP!!!! Well lets look at the alternatives for enchancing your skills magically. The first way is to just create an item of +1 skill bonus for 0g. .5(bonus squared x20) Or if you don't want to give up another slot you can double the cost of this second enchantment 2(.5(bonus squared x20)) =20gp. Now while this was a very inexpensive example lets look at the extreme: +20
New magic item. .5(20x20x20)=8000gp+materials+320xp
Adding skill to existing magic item: 2(.5(20x20x20)=16000gp+materials+640xp
Making Book: 20x12.5gp+ 51xp x 20=250gp+1020xp (market price of 5320).
Wait? A +20 book is cheaper than the magic item? That can't be right? Well actually it can because my initial assumption was slightly flawed and I post this because like all good new theory and magecraft the process should be documented so others can learn. My initial assumption forgot about how epic pricing works for abilities. I continued to use the standard pricing model and while it still is a constant 1% ratio the numbers changed on me. So now lets test the new theory which I think will work (if not well maybe someone smarter than me can find out where I messed up and fix it).
Ok first lets test skill check at 10 to make sure it works out.
New magic item: .5(10X10X20)=1000GP +25XP
Adding to existing magic item 2(.5(10x10x20)=2000gp+50xp
Book of Skill 12.5gpx10+51xpx10=125gp+510xp (2675gp)
Now lets apply a modifier of x10 to the base cost to create a +20 bonus
New magic item: 10(.5(10x10x20))+1000gp=11000gp + 440
Adding to existing magic item 10(2(.5(10x10x20)))+2000gp=22000gp +880xp
Book of Skill: 12.5x10x10 + 51xp x10x10 +125gp+510xp=1375gp+5610xp (30800gp)
There...Now the math seems to work out slightly better than before and the cost seems to be inline with what they should be for the items.
With Jimlocks system the cost benefit just isn't worth it. I would just add the skill modifier to an existing magic item (even with the enchanced cost as laid out by my formula at +20 or the original one in the DMG) and it would still be significantly cheaper than using a book of the same caliber. 137000gp vs 2000gp.
Hopefully this presents a reasoned, logical, balanced way to give PCs a Book of Skill that incorporates existing rules on magic item creation. A special thanks to Jimlock for initial logic behind my pricing model (I will try and give xp as soon as I'm done posting).
Last edited:
Greenfield
Adventurer
Once upon a time there was a Manual of Stealthy Pilfering, but I think it was from an earlier edition.
airwalkrr
Adventurer
I've seen many examples of books which grant the reader a circumstance bonus to a specific type of skill check, usually Knowledge checks. But generally the idea is that the book is a reference, not something that one reads all at once. So the idea is that as long as the character is able to consult the book, the character gets a +x circumstance bonus on the check.
If you want to go with something more permanent, use the guidelines in the DMG for an unslotted item with a skill check bonus. That would be functionally equivalent. But remember that they are guidelines, not hard and fast rules. If you come up with an item that sounds too good to be true, it probably is. Use Magic Device, for instance, I would generally make more expensive to increase than other skills just because the skill is so useful.
If you want to go with something more permanent, use the guidelines in the DMG for an unslotted item with a skill check bonus. That would be functionally equivalent. But remember that they are guidelines, not hard and fast rules. If you come up with an item that sounds too good to be true, it probably is. Use Magic Device, for instance, I would generally make more expensive to increase than other skills just because the skill is so useful.
