D&D 5E Boots of Striding and Springing.......kinda lame

[CapnZapp]

The rules for jumping are written from a common-sense perspective, using natural language. If you want to make a long jump, then you need a running start. It doesn't matter whether that movement occurred on your previous turn, or your current turn, as long as you have your running start before you make the jump.

Whoa there Saelorn, now you're leaving comfort territory.

Please don't claim your rulings are the only ruling to make, because it's not.

In your game, the Jump spell works much better than in Kobold's. Lets leave it at that

 

[CapnZapp]

The difference between magic items in 5E and magic items in previous editions is that magic items in 5E cannot be priced or purchased. They no longer need to inflate the capabilities of the item in order to justify the price they ask for it, because it's not available at any price, nor is it in competition with other items for your boot slot (since it's highly unlikely that you're going to find more than one pair of magic boots anytime soon).

Besides, they aren't objectively terrible. They actually do something useful - they help the slow character keep speed with the rest of the party; and they let you jump across a thirty-foot gap, which would otherwise be an insurmountable obstacle at low levels. They're pretty great for halfling rogues, who can make greater use of both powers. If you want to call them a terrible item, then you should be equally ready to condemn the Gauntlets of Ogre Power, which offer plenty of utility for a wide range of characters even though they aren't useful to Strength-based characters like they were in third edition.

The baggage that you are bringing into this game from others games and editions is preventing you from appreciating this item in its appropriate context. If I had the choice between taking these boots and taking nothing, I would take these boots every time, and you can bet that I would find plenty of use for them.

Nah. I still think the boots are terrible and that they could have been implemented objectively better: simpler, more fun, faster play... even less internet discussion like this one!

(No, not kidding - if the game dumped the strength calculation and the ambigous references to run up and "immediately", it would become in my opinion simply better)

That they are less bad in games that rule movement like you do makes me appreciate that you can gain some mileage out of the boots. Now it's your turn to acknowledge that in games where there is no such thing as counting previous turn movement the boots are definitely less useful than your initial impression

And then we're done, since then there's nothing more to argue about

 

[happyhermit]

...
(No, not kidding - if the game dumped the strength calculation and the ambigous references to run up and "immediately", it would become in my opinion simply better)
...

I don't think we could really agree on it being simply better though. To me, typically reading a thread where someone comes in and makes 15 consecutive posts isn't the greatest whereas it obviously suits your preferences.

 

[Lanefan]

That's weird because it's hard to visualize. Usually, when you are making a melee attack, you're projecting force in the direction of your target. It doesn't make sense to me that you could be moving in a straight line, and maintaining that momentum, while projecting force perpendicular to your movement.

It's easy to visualize to me, at least with any non-piercing weapon...you're reaching out and slashing or clubbing at the foe on your way past, using your forward speed to help your swing. Visualizing this with piercing weapons like spears...yeah, that takes a bit of mind-bending.

Lanefan

 

[The Crimson Binome]

As long as we're clear that you have made a ruling and that you're okay with others not making the same ruling (since none of this is in the PHB), we can agree that in your game the Jump spell is considerably less sucky than in other games.

No, I am not okay with others declaring an incorrect interpretation as equally valid, for the same reason that I'm not okay with someone declaring that the average of 2d10+5 is 15; it's simply not true, and we cannot possibly discuss this topic in a rational fashion if we reject the basic truths upon which the game is constructed. There is an internal consistency to the game world and how it operates which must be respected. If someone wants to intentionally misinterpret the clear design of the rules, then that's on them to own up to it.

There is ambiguity within the text, in many places. This is not one of those places. The human should be able to run sixty feet and then jump over the crevice, and any interpretation which says otherwise is insufficient.

But, Saelorn, what is "less clear" about the boots?

To me it is exceptionally clear the boots enforce the less generous way to run movement between turns.

The item works differently from the spell, and from the general rules on jumping further than your movement speed. I know why the item is designed that way, even though I disagree with their reason for doing so.

The boots prevent you from jumping further than your movement in one round, but it doesn't even imply that the running start has to take place during the same round. You can still run thirty (or sixty) feet in round one, and then make a thirty-foot jump in round two.

And if you really want to disagree with common sense, then that's on you to tell me what's happening in the game world that prevents the example human from running sixty feet and then jumping over a ten-foot crevice without doubling back or slowing down.

 

[CapnZapp]

I don't think we could really agree on it being simply better though. To me, typically reading a thread where someone comes in and makes 15 consecutive posts isn't the greatest whereas it obviously suits your preferences.

You are still free to speak your voice.

Perhaps you mistook me for somebody that based my conclusions on my own previous posts like "out of the last 15 posters the majority agrees with me"

Let's try again. I'm saying, quote, if the game dumped the strength calculation and the ambigous references to run up and "immediately", it would become in my opinion simply better.

What do you say, happyhermit?

 

[CapnZapp]

No, I am not okay with others declaring an incorrect interpretation as equally valid, for the same reason that I'm not okay with someone declaring that the average of 2d10+5 is 15; it's simply not true, and we cannot possibly discuss this topic in a rational fashion if we reject the basic truths upon which the game is constructed. There is an internal consistency to the game world and how it operates which must be respected. If someone wants to intentionally misinterpret the clear design of the rules, then that's on them to own up to it.

There is ambiguity within the text, in many places. This is not one of those places. The human should be able to run sixty feet and then jump over the crevice, and any interpretation which says otherwise is insufficient.

Alright.

If you truly want to dismiss all the gamers running it differently than you do, we have nothing more to discuss.

I am open to your ruling being one that is reasonable, and I'm sure it's used by many gamers (including Caliban).

That you choose to blind yourself to the very many gamers that run each turn as its own thing is your loss. Then you can never understand the impetus for this topic.

Your post continues to say something about the actual item, but honestly, I'm not inclined to discuss the item with you until you respect the other common ruling on movement out of turns.

 

[Lanefan]

The difference between magic items in 5E and magic items in previous editions is that magic items in 5E cannot be priced or purchased.

Which while fine on paper is unenforceable in practice. Even within the party are characters not allowed to sell or trade items between themselves? By RAW, two fighters in the party can't even have this discussion:

Fighty: "Hey, guys, I just got this new flaming greatsword from our treasury and now this +1 longsword is redundant to me."
Hitty: "I'll give you 1000 g.p. for it."
Fighty: "Done, good friend, and I'll throw in a round of ale!"

Banned? Ludicrous!

And by extension, once that discussion can happen then the same discussion can logically happen between members of different parties, then guilds get involved, and before you know it there's an informal market for magic items. Hence, unenforceable rule.

The fact the occasional player has managed to gain something fun or cool out of the spell/item does not change the basic fact that even for a level 1 spell Jump is woefully mundane.

And not just in 5e. Jump has been rather underwhelming since time began. (in all my years of running 1e I think I've seen it cast maybe three times, i.e. once a decade!)

The boots, however, used to be cool. I think I'd beef the 5e version up a little; lose the attunement and maybe let them give you 10' extra movement provided at least half your total movement that round is a jump.

Lanefan

 

[The Crimson Binome]

It's easy to visualize to me, at least with any non-piercing weapon...you're reaching out and slashing or clubbing at the foe on your way past, using your forward speed to help your swing. Visualizing this with piercing weapons like spears...yeah, that takes a bit of mind-bending.

I can kind of see it, if you have a super sharp sword that is passing through your enemy without resistance. Like, that's a not-uncommon image of dashing swordsmen throughout popular culture. Usually, when you run up to an enemy and swing a weapon, you want to stop next to them so you can transfer your momentum into the weapon.

If a player wanted to do that in a game, then I'd probably be okay with it. Like I said, it's hard for me to visualize, but it doesn't hit me with an overwhelming sense of impropriety that a lot of other things do. It does seem like a less-intuitive scenario than running straight at an enemy and vaulting over them, though.

 

[CapnZapp]

Heh

Here's a blast from the past: http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?58388-Boots-of-Striding-and-Springing-got-nerfed-bad

The 3.0 boots doubled your movement, which was awesome, but well, broken too.

The 3.5 boots effectively gave you what we would today call the Longstrider spell.

Still, the designers have yet not ditched the cumbersome coupling to strength-based Jump calculations.

Not that everything was rosier back in the "good old days":

Boots of Striding and Springing: The wearer of these magical boots has a base movement rate of 12", regardless of size or weight. This speed can be maintained tirelessly for up to 12 hours per day, but thereafter the boots no longer function for 12 hours , assume they "recharge" for that period. In addition to the striding factor, these boots also have a springing factor. While "normal" paces for the individual wearing this type of footgear are 3’ long, the boots also enable forward jumps of up to 30’, backward leaps of 9’, and vertical springs of 15’. If circumstances permit the use of such movement in combat, the wearer can effectively strike and spring away when he or she has the initiative during a melee round. However, such activity has a degree of danger, and there is a base 20% chance that the wearer of the boots will stumble and be stunned on the following round; adjust the 20% chance downwards by 3% for each point of dexterity above 12 of the wearer, i.e. 17% at 13 dexterity, 14% at 14, 11% at 15, 8% at 16, 5% at 17, and but 2% at 18 dexterity. In any event, the wearer increases armor class value by +1 due to the quickness of movement these boots imbue, so armor class 2 becomes 1, armor class 1 becomes 0, etc.