Chaosmancer
Legend
Agree and disagree.
If the subclasses built upon Arcane Surge like the Barbarian subclasses built upon Rage? I would be a happy gamer.
D&D 5E Brainstorm Sorcerer upgrades. (+)
Agree and disagree.
If the subclasses built upon Arcane Surge like the Barbarian subclasses built upon Rage? I would be a happy gamer.
Neonchameleon
Legend
I don't think all should (I like the Aberrant Mind) - but the Storm Sorcerer plugging into a literal storm for their Arcane Surge would be awesome.
Chaosmancer
Legend
Agreed.
jmartkdr2
Hero
Another option: sorcerer retains its "born with magic" identity, but gains Superiority Dice (which are fully fungible with fighter's SD, Bardic Inspiration, and Ki.) These represent the inner power of the sorcerer (moxie, grit, motivation) that they call on to use magic anyways. Their maneuvers are metamagic - specifically the spell-boosting kind.
- More emphasis on bloodlines, right from 1st level onwards.
- Points.
- See #1.
- No.
- No.
- Cha.
- Yes, and definitely should be. Considerably more so.
- No, not “need”. But ideally, that would be the case.
EzekielRaiden
Follower of the Way
As stated in the other thread:
Use spell points, not slots.
Bring back the playtest "transform as you run out of slots" mechanic, but ensure that different subclasses actually transform into meaningfully distinct gameplay experiences.
Rework the metamagics to suck less, e.g. Heightened Spell is too expensive for its value (3 SP is a 2nd-level spell!), Careful Spell should just exempt targets (or do the "treat them as if they succeeded on the save even if they fail, or leave them entirely unaffected if they succeed" style), Distant Spell should be compatible with other metamagics, etc.
Give the Sorcerer guaranteed subclass-specific spells, and actually write up more than just ONE SINGULAR Sorcerer-only spell.
One other idea that occurred to me: Potentially allow 1/day casting of a Sorcerer spell the Sorcerer doesn't know, of a level at least 1 below their maximum spell level, but cast as though it were one level higher. E.g. if you're level 7, you could cast fireball, costing SP as though it were a 4th level spell, and that would be your once-a-day spell you don't know. Inefficient and limited, something you can't rely on, but which can in a pinch be really helpful. Since you can't cast 10th level spells, this would obviously also prevent casting a 9th level spell you don't know (which is for the best.)
Between metamagic, the transformation mechanic, actually having a distinctive spellcasting method, subclass-specific bonus spells, and more "signature" Sorcerer spells, I think you could quite easily get a class that is both aesthetically and mechanically distinctive while simultaneously fixing some of the weaknesses of the class.
Use spell points, not slots.
Bring back the playtest "transform as you run out of slots" mechanic, but ensure that different subclasses actually transform into meaningfully distinct gameplay experiences.
Rework the metamagics to suck less, e.g. Heightened Spell is too expensive for its value (3 SP is a 2nd-level spell!), Careful Spell should just exempt targets (or do the "treat them as if they succeeded on the save even if they fail, or leave them entirely unaffected if they succeed" style), Distant Spell should be compatible with other metamagics, etc.
Give the Sorcerer guaranteed subclass-specific spells, and actually write up more than just ONE SINGULAR Sorcerer-only spell.
One other idea that occurred to me: Potentially allow 1/day casting of a Sorcerer spell the Sorcerer doesn't know, of a level at least 1 below their maximum spell level, but cast as though it were one level higher. E.g. if you're level 7, you could cast fireball, costing SP as though it were a 4th level spell, and that would be your once-a-day spell you don't know. Inefficient and limited, something you can't rely on, but which can in a pinch be really helpful. Since you can't cast 10th level spells, this would obviously also prevent casting a 9th level spell you don't know (which is for the best.)
Between metamagic, the transformation mechanic, actually having a distinctive spellcasting method, subclass-specific bonus spells, and more "signature" Sorcerer spells, I think you could quite easily get a class that is both aesthetically and mechanically distinctive while simultaneously fixing some of the weaknesses of the class.
In order:
- See above.
- Points.
- Important--first level.
- No.
- IMO, "yes but also no," not necessarily turning into monsters, but turning into something.
- Cha. Subclass might make you care about Con...or it might not.
- Not only can, should.
- If we want it to get widespread appeal, yes, unfortunately. For all the pro-homebrew talk during the 5.0 playtest, the actual culture of play for 5e is mostly hostile to 3PP in general, perhaps moreso than any edition I've ever played. Even 4e DMs, who usually preferred options compatible with the character builder, were on average less hostile toward 3PP than 5e DMs I've discussed it with.
To be honest, I think, assuming most of the changes made in UA stick and go to print, that the 2024 Sorcerer covers a lot of the basics of what I want. I prefer a more flexible and easier to play sorcerer class and a lot of the changes I see advocated for make them more niche, complicated to play and lock them into themes.
The ways I'd upgrade the Sorcerer are fairly simple:
The ways I'd upgrade the Sorcerer are fairly simple:
- Make more spells that are unique to the Sorcerer. And specifically I want more spells like Dragon's Breath or Alter Self. I think Sorcerers should have access to self-only transmutation spells (as their bodies are magic), I liked giving them a self-only healing spell. I'd also give them more blast spells, ie more cones and lines and spells that emanate out from them.
- Make more metamagic, and make some more unique and niche metamagic options for those that decide to play a more tightly themed Sorcerer. What was nice about the old Twin spell (aside from being really powerful) was that choosing it meant that certain spells became more favorable. I was Searing Spell to augment Fire mages, Persistent Spell for Sorcerers that are all about cast personal buff spells.
Stormonu
Legend
Probably not as radical as others, but mainly what I was thinking was to break the Sorcerer's subclass up into two options - Ancestry (where your magic comes from) and Path of Magic (how you use it/manifest).
I still like the idea of the sorcerer being a spontaneous caster with a partial spell point system and on-the-fly metamagics. I think the game can fly with Wizards, Sorcerers and Warlocks (and I'd like to see Witches as well). I think there's room for each class.
Enclosed is what I've been working on, haven't had a chance to playtest so its just theorycraft at this point.
I still like the idea of the sorcerer being a spontaneous caster with a partial spell point system and on-the-fly metamagics. I think the game can fly with Wizards, Sorcerers and Warlocks (and I'd like to see Witches as well). I think there's room for each class.
Enclosed is what I've been working on, haven't had a chance to playtest so its just theorycraft at this point.
FrogReaver
As long as i get to be the frog
Looking at the wizard template.
1. Really good and playstyle defining early always on subclass abilities.
2. Ritual casting
3. Arcane recovery
4. Class Spell list
5. Number of spells prepared
6. Amazing high level features
Sorcerers get
1. Dinky low level subclass abilities
2. Sorcery Points/Metamagic (very limited use early and many metamagic options don’t really do much or work with very limited spells).
3. No ritual casting
4. Inferior class spell list
5. Too limited spells known/prepared.
Proposals below.
1. Really good and playstyle defining early always on subclass abilities.
2. Ritual casting
3. Arcane recovery
4. Class Spell list
5. Number of spells prepared
6. Amazing high level features
Sorcerers get
1. Dinky low level subclass abilities
2. Sorcery Points/Metamagic (very limited use early and many metamagic options don’t really do much or work with very limited spells).
3. No ritual casting
4. Inferior class spell list
5. Too limited spells known/prepared.
Proposals below.
Last edited:
FrogReaver
As long as i get to be the frog
My proposals.
1. Every sorcerer gets the ability to use sorcery points to upcast spells or add an additional target to a cantrip. Initial thoughts are 1 sorcery point per increased spell level. Maybe cap increased levels by 1/2 prof bonus rounded up.
2. Sorcery points no longer can be converted to spell slots. Sorcerer niche now is truly enhancing his spells.
3. Sorcerers should pick 1 other classes spell list in lieu of their own - allows them to better represent any given bloodline theme or have this defined by subclass.
4. Subclasses need more early identity. One of the best ways for this is a few inherently known spells based on subclass.
5. Subclasses should also provide an alternate subclass specific metamagic.
6. I’d revamp current metamagics to a later level feature. The 1 universal spell slot level increaser metamagic and subclass specific one should be class/subclass defining and it’s not like there’s enough sorcery points to go around early anyways.
7. Possibly a small sorcery point recharge per short rest or once per short rest.
8. Allow ritual casting.
9. Tone back and adjust everything till it’s within the balance threshold.
1. Every sorcerer gets the ability to use sorcery points to upcast spells or add an additional target to a cantrip. Initial thoughts are 1 sorcery point per increased spell level. Maybe cap increased levels by 1/2 prof bonus rounded up.
2. Sorcery points no longer can be converted to spell slots. Sorcerer niche now is truly enhancing his spells.
3. Sorcerers should pick 1 other classes spell list in lieu of their own - allows them to better represent any given bloodline theme or have this defined by subclass.
4. Subclasses need more early identity. One of the best ways for this is a few inherently known spells based on subclass.
5. Subclasses should also provide an alternate subclass specific metamagic.
6. I’d revamp current metamagics to a later level feature. The 1 universal spell slot level increaser metamagic and subclass specific one should be class/subclass defining and it’s not like there’s enough sorcery points to go around early anyways.
7. Possibly a small sorcery point recharge per short rest or once per short rest.
8. Allow ritual casting.
9. Tone back and adjust everything till it’s within the balance threshold.
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