Brilliant 5-ft. step change! Genius initiative change! Everyone should read!

[Thanee]

Hmm. I actually use Wickett's five-foot step rule, but also allow you to take a five-foot step as part of a full-attack action with a melee weapon (only). The melee guy works the same way as before, the archer can't get his melee attack, and the casters can still cast on the defensive, and so forth. It works well, I think.

Did you ever have a spontaneous caster with metamagic (sorcerer) in your game?

I think this rule is highly unfair towards those.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Jhulae]

The 5' step rule is unnecessary. There are enough monsters with reach and enough reach weapons available that it's really a non-issue, not to mention being unfair against certain classes and/or feats, as Thanee said.

To be honest, the only proponents I've ever seen for changing the 5' step rule are DMs or players who can't come up with tactics to defeat it.

The initiative idea is nice, but we use initiative cards which work extremely well, and haven't had any real issue with initiative.

 

[the Jester]

Sorry, I don't see the need for either of the changes you propose.

 

[Mr. T]

5-foot Step of Opportunity

Whenever an opponent moves out of your threatened area with a 5-foot step, you can immediately follow up into that opponents direction with a 5-foot step of your own, but only if you haven’t taken a 5-foot step yet during the round, or moved at running speed (but you might have moved otherwise, this is an exception to the standard rule, that you cannot move and take a 5-foot step within the same round). You can only take a 5-foot step in such a way, that the opponent is in your threatened area again afterwards.

Bye
Thanee

From I've learned/seen/done in kendo duels, this 5ft step rule looks just about perfect.

 

[John Q. Mayhem]

I like the way they suggest you handle initiative in Paranoia. Arrange the players around the table, in reverse order, based on their initiative bonus (which in Paranoia is based on a mental attribute to represent quick thinking). Then, when a combat starts, you ask the first guy (with the lowest bonus) what he wants to do. He tells you. Then you ask the second guy what he wants to do. He tells you. Repeat.

At the end, you ask the guy with the best bonus what he wants to do, which allows him to decide his action given that he knows what everyone else is doing. So he can change his course of action to react to less quick or quick-witted characters. Then you carry out the actions in order from highest to lowest. Nobody can change their actions after they state them, and mayhem ensues as they try to perform actions based on conditions that have changed because quicker characters have already reacted to them...or blown something up, changing the whole playing field.

Heh heh. Heheheheheh. Hehehehehehehehehh. BUAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

I LOVE IT!

 

[HellHound]

Heh heh. Heheheheheh. Hehehehehehehehehh. BUAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

I LOVE IT!

Actually... having played games like that, that kind of initiative system gets old VERY quickly if you are the player with low initiative. Over a period of 7 fights, the two players with the lowest initiatives never got to attack anyone at all. period. ever. in two game sessions. not once.

Their targets would either be dead, hidden, run away, hiding behind something, etc.

One of the two players started declaring actions such as "I lob greandes indiscriminately" or "I shoot the person nearest me" because he knew that whatever he was targeing was going to change shortly, and once that got him executed a few times, he would declare that he was dancing a jig or some such. The second player would just throw down his laser and bang his head on the table whenever combat began while saying
"what's"
*BANG*
"the"
*BANG*
"use"
*BANG*
"of"
*BANG*
"declaring"
*BANG*
"an action"
*BANG*
"that"
*BANG*
"I"
*BANG*
"will never"
*REALLY HARD BANG*
"get to do?"

 

[Cheiromancer]

Wouldn't refocusing initiative be more productive than banging his head?

 

[Relic]

The change I made to the 5-step in my game keeps the step intact but makes it so that there is not such a huge advantage to the "step back 5 feet from the raging barbarian with the great axe and cast a spell/shoot a handful of arrows in his face while he stands there doint nothing.." issue. The change:

5-Foot Step: You may take a 5-foot step during any portion of the round, even if it is not your turn, provided you are not flat-footed. All normal rules for the 5-foot step still apply (as per the core rules).

This eliminates the spellcaster/archer from standing in front of a melee character and stepping back to cast a spell while the melee character just stands there and watches the movement. Now, the melee character can simply follow the spellcaster/archer, providing he is capable of taking a 5-foot step (has not used it already, is not immobile or flat-footed, etc).

 

[genshou]

As a very strong proponent of the opinion that sorcerers are already hamstrung when it comes to metamagic, I'll agree with Thanee... 5-foot step = move action: bad.

It took me some time to teach my players how to counter the 5-foot step tactic (and I must admit, I was enjoying the freedom my spellcasting villains had for a time). Take a readied action to attack them if they attempt to move back 5 feet. If the archer/spellcaster steps back, you take your readied action, and you get a 5-foot step to follow as part of the readied action, even if you've already moved 5 feet or even taken a move action on your previous turn. (This is becaused the readied action is a partial action independent of your normal turn.)

The fact that an archer can step back and make a full attack against the greataxe-wielding Barbarian is balanced by the fact that, next round, the Barbarian steps 5 feet forward and hacks the archer yet again. If you change the rules, you hamstring too many classes (especially spellcasters) too much. The Fighter gets the same amount of benefit from a 5-foot step as a spellcaster or ranged weapon specialist gets, so if you change the rule and create a special corollary "just for the melee warriors," it creates an unfair imbalance in the rules. "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" is the old maxim, and I think it applies in this case.

The D&D FAQ provides some words of wisdom about this topic as well. There's a great deal in there, but I'd like to point out the following quotes specifically:

If the 5-foot step puts you in a space your opponent does not threaten, then you will not trigger an attack of opportunity from that opponent when you cast the spell. Think of this tactic as waiting for an opportune moment to leap back out of harm's way before casting the spell.

And the following:

I have a fighter character. Is there any way I can keep enemy spellcasters and archers from simply stepping 5 feet back from me and blasting me with ranged attacks or spells?

Yes, but you probably don't need to. The foe's 5-foot step keeps you from making an attack of opportunity when the opponent fires or casts a spell, but on your turn you can take a 5-foot step of your own and use the full attack action to chop the foe to bits. Alternatively, you could prepare an action to disrupt a spellcaster and you can make a 5-foot step or even a partial charge to close with the spellcaster and deliver the attack.

You can't disrupt an archer, but if you're getting tired of the step back and shoot tactic, consider using a reach weapon. That way, you'll still threaten foes 10 feet away from you. Of course, you don't threaten foes who are only 5 feet away when you're armed with most reach weapons. You can solve that problem by having an ally who can threaten the spaces adjacent to you or by gaining the Exotic Weapon Proficiency (spiked chain) feat, as the spiked chain is a reach weapon that also works against foes 5 feet away.

Also, don't forget grappling or striking the foe's weapon. Most spellcasters won't be holding a weapon, and foes holding ranged weapons don't threaten you, so you don't have to worry about triggering an attack of opportunity when using either tactic. Foes you've grappled can't step away from you until they escape your hold. Striking a foe's weapon is often less troublesome, and if you break it, you won't need to worry about ranged attacks. Normally you need to make an opposed attack roll to strike a foe's weapon or shield, but if the item you're striking is not a melee weapon or a shield, just use the rules for striking a held, carried, or worn object (pages 135 and 136 in the Player's Handbook). Again, you'd normally trigger an attack of opportunity for striking the foe's equipment, but a foe armed with a ranged weapon doesn't threaten you.

This can be a very effective tactic against opponents armed with bows. A longbow, composite longbow, or heavy crossbow has an Armor Class of 14 (base 10, -1 for size, +5 for being a held object) plus the wielder's Dexterity bonus and whatever deflection bonus the wielder might have, which makes it a fairly easy target. A shortbow, short composite bow, light crossbow, or repeating crossbow has an Armor Class of 15, which is same as a longbow, but they no size adjustment because these weapons are Medium-size. Bows have hardness 5 and 2 hit points (just like spears), crossbows are tougher (hardness 10, 5 hit points). If you have multiple attacks, it's usually best to aim your attacks with the highest attack bonuses at the opponent and save your later attacks with lower attack bonuses for the weapon. Often, you'll have difficulty hitting the opponent with these attacks, but you'll find the weapon an easier target.

You also could do the following: Ready an action so that when the archer steps away from you, you make a partial charge against him or just a 5-foot step and an attack). When you've finished your attack, he's within your reach and you'll get an attack of opportunity against him if he tries to shoot. The higher level you are, however, the worse the trade-off between taking a single attack with a prepared action and taking the full attack action.

There's no need for a rules change, only a need for greater knowledge of how to use the balanced, existing rules to counter the dreaded 5-foot step.

 

[genshou]

As for initiative...

I think the idea of player seating is more a table rule than a house rule, but semantics aside...

All of the rules presented on this issue are valid. Which one you use depends on your gaming group. Find the option that works best for your players (and be sure to discuss the idea with them beforehand). I use initiative cards as explained by Pbartender, so it doesn't matter to me where players sit. But some players might find it easier to remember when their turn is coming up if you seat them in initiative order at the start of each combat!