Originally posted by tleilaxu_ghola:
Purpose: Provide a good place for people to publish their Tome of Battle infused builds for public enjoyment and criticism. The advantage of compiling builds into one place is so that old builds and ideas do not fall into obscurity, while also providing a readily apparent base for comparison for new builds. All builds will be linked here in this post and credited to the author.
Posting Guidelines:
This is not a contest thread and makes no claims at officiality. However, I would like to impose some basic guidelines so as to facilitate legibility and build comparison. I encourage constructive criticism or general comments, the focus of the thread is to be on the builds presented, however. If you wish to discuss ToB tricks in general, I suggest you take those comments to the ToB Tricks/Combos/Library thread. When submitting a build please use the following basic structure. You may add on more information as you desire or deem necessary.
Caster/Spell Focused
Ability Focused
Mobility Optimization
Sword & Board
TWF Optimization
Charging Builds
Single Class & Single PrC
Tactical Oriented
Maneuvers Oriented
Gish
Throwing Builds
Natural Attack
Disabling
Party Benefit
Bardic Flavored
Tank/Defense Builds
Critical Hit Optimization
Cloak & Dagger
Shadow Pouncing
Miscellaneous
OMFG ROFLCOPTER PWNZ0RZ!!11!!1eleven!1!
All builds are 3.5 compliant unless noted by the build link.
LET THE BUILDS BEGIN!
Originally posted by tleilaxu_ghola:
Title: Beshadowed Blade
Race: Human
Build Stub: Swordsage 4/Warblade 1/Fighter 1/Blood Claw Master 2/Swordsage +1/Warblade +1/Fighter +1/Swordsage +1/Warblade +1/Swordsage +2/Warblade +1/Swordsage +4
Build Progression:
----Class--------------MG---RM--St--Swap-IL(S/W)-Class Abilities-<br />1. Warblade-----------+3----+4--+1-------1-------Weapon Aptitude<br />2. Swordsage----------+6----+0--+1-------2-------Quick to Act +1<br />3. Swordsage----------+1----+1--+0-------3-------AC bonus<br />4. Swordsage----------+1----+0--+0---X---4-------Insightful Strike<br />5. Swordsage----------+1----+3--+1-------4/3-----<br />6. Fighter------------+0----+0--+0-------5/3-----<br />7. Blood Claw Master--+1----+0--+0-------6/4-----Claws of the Beast, Shifting 1/day<br />8. Blood Claw Master--+0----+0--+0-------7/4-----Superior TWF<br />9. Swordsage----------+1----+1--+1-------8/5-----Quick to Act +2<br />10.Warblade-----------+1----+0--+0-------8/6-----Uncanny Dodge<br />11.Fighter------------+0----+0--+0-------9/7-----<br />12.Swordsage----------+1----+1--+0---X---10/7----<br />13.Warblade-----------+1----+0--+0-------10/8----Battle Ardor<br />14.Swordsage----------+1----+0--+0-------11/8----Sense Magic<br />15.Swordsage----------+1----+1--+0---X---12/9----Discipline Focus (defensive stance)<br />16.Warblade-----------+0----+1--+1---X---13/10---<br />17.Swordsage----------+1----+0--+1-------14/10---Evasion<br />18.Swordsage----------+1----+1--+0---X---15/11---Quick to Act +3<br />19.Swordsage----------+1----+1--+0-------16/11---<br />20.Swordsage----------+1----+0--+0---X---17/12---Insightful Strike<br /><br />MG = Maneuvers Gained<br />RM = Readied Maneuvers gained<br />Swap = you can swap out an old maneuver on an 'X'ed level<br />IL = Initiator level<br />(S/W) = Swordsage/Warblade
Feats:
1. Adaptive Style, (Weapon Finesse)
2. (Weapon Focus (Tiger Claw))
3. (Shadow Blade)
6. Iron Heart Aura, (TWF)
9. Stormguard Warrior
11. (Improved TWF)
12. Gloom Razor
15. Greater TWF
18. Martial Maneuver (Girallon Windmill Flesh Rip)
Abilities: DEX>WIS>CON>STR>INT>CHA
Advantages the build offers:
Originally posted by MikeN:
Gestalt could get pretty crazy here. OA Shaman would be an incredible synergy class for a build, thanks to the Hero domain (Giant Size, Divine Metamagic cheese), extra martial arts feats, etc.
______
Of course, what this source really does is more of things that really LOOK cool. And adding it to OA is a thing of beauty as well. Wis synergies with Shiba Defender and Swordsage. Int/Cha /Dex synergies with Iaijutsu Master and Warblade...
Something like a Warblade with 2 levels of Soldier of Light, 1 level of Mystic Wanderer, 3 levels of Swashbuckler, 1+ level of Blade Dancer and 5+ Iaijutsu Master...
Originally posted by Lellindil:
when I get to my books I am going to try and work out a telf shadowlord + shadowhand build of some kind. to try and take advantage of the obvious shadowjaunt + shadow pounce. initiator level for higher level manuevers will be the problem if I want to advance sneak attack.
Originally posted by r.213:
Originally posted by encard:
I'm going to give a Scout/Swordsage build a shot, when I get the chance. I'm currently partway through a Shadow Sun Ninja build, although it feels a bit uninspired right now. Scout should be fun here, though... There's a fair number of movement-based maneuvers and stances in there.
Originally posted by Lellindil:
crinti pounce requires a mount, that sux in my opinion. crinti are also 1/2 drow so no dice on halfling on a dog.
Originally posted by prototype00:
Title: Sinshadow, the enlightened prodigal.
Race: Half Orc
Build Stub: Monk 2/ Swordsage 3/ Shadow Sun Ninja 10/ Master of Nine 5
Feats:
Mnk1: Dodge, (Improved Unarmed Strike)
Mnk2: (Combat Reflexes)
Mnk2/ SwordSage1: (Weapon Focus, Unarmed Strike), Adaptive Style
Mnk2/ SwordSage3/ Shadow Sun Ninja1: Shadow Blade
Mnk2/ SwordSage3/ Shadow Sun Ninja4: Improved Natural Attack (Unarmed Strike)
Mnk2/ SwordSage3/ Shadow Sun Ninja7: Blind Fight
Mnk2/ SwordSage3/ Shadow Sun Ninja10: Improved Initiative
Mnk2/ SwordSage3/ Shadow Sun Ninja10/ Master of Nine3: Superior Unarmed Strike
Stat progression: Str> Wis> Dex> Con> Int> Cha
Maneuvers:
Note: Some of these levels require the taking of the stance maneuvers before the strike/boost/counter maneuvers. Its not prohibited and works somewhat like qualifying for two feats one after the other.
Show
[sblock]
Monk 2/SwordSage 1:
Burning Blade (DW1)
Stone Bones (SD1)
Wolf Fang Strike (TC1)
Sudden Leap (TC1)
Sapphire Nightmare Blade (DM1)
Counter Charge (SS1)
Child of Shadows (SH1) (Stance)
Monk 2/SwordSage 2:
Cloak of Deception (SH2)
Step of the Wind (SS1) (Stance)
Monk 2/SwordSage 3:
Emerald Razor (DM2)
Monk 2/SwordSage 3/Shadow Sun Ninja 1:
Strength Draining Strike (SH3)
Monk 2/SwordSage 3/Shadow Sun Ninja 3:
Hand of Death (SH4)
Monk 2/SwordSage 3/Shadow Sun Ninja 5:
Step of the Dancing Moth (SH5) (Stance)
Monk 2/SwordSage 3/Shadow Sun Ninja 6:
Mirrored Pursuit (SS5)
Monk 2/SwordSage 3/Shadow Sun Ninja 9:
Hydra Slaying Strike (SS7)
Monk 2/SwordSage 3/Shadow Sun Ninja 10/ Master of Nine 1:
Diamond Defence (DM8)
Quicksilver Motion (DM8)
Monk 2/SwordSage 3/Shadow Sun Ninja 10/ Master of Nine 2:
Wolf Pack Tactics (TC 8) (Stance)
Girallon Windmill Flesh Rip (TC 8)
Monk 2/SwordSage 3/Shadow Sun Ninja 10/ Master of Nine 3:
Five-Shadow Creeping Ice Enervation Strike (SH9)
Time Stands Still (DM9)
Monk 2/SwordSage 3/Shadow Sun Ninja 10/ Master of Nine 4:
Ghostly Defence (SS8) (Stance)
Tornado Throw (SS9)
Monk 2/SwordSage 3/Shadow Sun Ninja 10/ Master of Nine 5:
Raging Mongoose (TC8)
Feral Death Blow (TC9)
[/sblock]
Stances:
Mnk2/ SwdSage1: Child of Shadow (SH 1)
Mnk2/ SwdSage2: Step of the Wind (SS 1)
Mnk2/ SwdSage3/ Shadow Sun Ninja 5: Step of the Dancing Moth (SH 5)
Mnk2/ SwdSage3/ Shadow Sun Ninja 10/ Master of Nine 2: Wolf Pack Tactics(TC 3)
Mnk2/ SwdSage3/ Shadow Sun Ninja 10/ Master of Nine 4: Ghostly Defence (SS 8)
Strategies:
Exhibit A) Shin ("True") Tornado Throw
Monk Movement (70ft) + QuickSilver Motion + Tornado Throw + Wolf Pack Tactics
= +112 to trip attempt.
Also, speed allows for 14 possible trip attempts, the first one starting at a bonus of +32, until the last one is +112.
Exhibit B) Lu Lai Sen Zhang (The approaching palm of the deity)
Monk Movement (+16 to jump checks with 70ft movement/round) + Feral Death Blow + Max Jump (23 + Str) = Quite possibly dead enemy
Exhibit C) Wu Jien Dao (The way that is no way)
Ghostly Defence + Child of Shadow + Double Stance (Master of Nine ability) = Enemies hit themselves half the time
Exhibit D) Qiu Bai Zhang Fa (Undefeated's Technique)
Time Stands Still + Raging Mongoose + Haste = 20 Attacks, 16 of them at highest base attack bonus
Exhibit E) Northern Sidereal Strike
Time Stands Still + Girallon Windmill Fleshrip + Haste = 12 attacks, 8 of which are at their highest attack bonus. If 8 hit, +20d6 damage.
Exhibit F) Flowing Stance
Wolf Pack Tactics + Child of Shadows + Dual Stance + Full attack = Concealment all the time
Recommended Equipment
Show
[sblock]
Collar of Umbral Metamorphosis (ToM)
Monk's Belt
Boots of Speed
Band of Wisdom (head slot)
Shirt of Sheltered Vitality (one use/day shirt, casts 4th level spell sheltered vitality from spell compendium)
This character can't fly, so I recommend at high levels a set of wings of flying. There are cheaper alternatives, but where else are you going to be able to fly around with one bat wing and one wing of pure white feathers? At those levels, its the sty'lin what counts.
[/sblock]
Build Advantages:
Wis to AC in light armor
Wis to AC when not in light armor (necessary to pull off the Tornado throw combo mentioned above)
Evasion
Dex + Str to Damage While in shadow Hand Stance
4d8 unarmed damage (Requires Monk's Belt)
2 Extra attacks at no penalty from flurry
4 Extra attacks from Raging Mongoose (Tiger Claw 8) (Remember they said unarmed strikes count as weapons.)
High Initiator level
4 9th level maneuvers (Diamond Mind, Shadow Hand, Setting Sun, Tiger Claw)
Various Light and darkness tricks via Shadow Sun Ninja
Tip: Use the 4th level Cleric Spell Sheltered Vitality from Spell Compendium to become immune to stat damage (via a one use/day item or something), go to town delivering negative levels.
Build disadvantages
Slightly lower Bab
Middle levels lack Maneuvers of Appropriate levels (stuck with mostly SwordSage Maneuvers from first 5 levels)
Mostly only Maneuvers from 4 schools, no stone dragon high defence abilities.
Feats a bit tight, from Master of Nine pre-reqs.
prototype00
P.s. I'd like to take the opportunity to thank Jin Yong and SNK for their many inspirations concerning this build.
P.s. Realized that all the speed bonuses from boots of speed and monk movement don't stack being enhancement bonuses and all. Therefore this character can only travel 70ft/round. Anyone know of speed bonuses that aren't enhancement?
Originally posted by Ed-Zero:
Here's my build from the posts when I was trying to figure out Rends on the ToB Combo Thread.
Rending Machine
[sblock]Shifter Monk 1/Warblade 14/Bloodclaw Master 5
Feats:
1) TWF (PH) - hit with both hands, Stunning Fist (Monk)
3) Superior Unarmed Strike (ToB)
6) Snap Kick (ToB), Tiger Blooded (ToB)[Warblade Feat]
9) Great Rend (do an additional 1d4 + ½ strength modified +1/4 levels) rending damage
11) Improved Initiative (PHB)[Warblade Feat]
12) Open Lesser Shakra (Arms) [MoI]
15) Shape Soulmeld (Girallon Arms) [MoI]
18) TWR (PHII) - grants a rend when both hands hit (1d6 + 1½ x Strength bonus)
Soulmelds:
Girallon Arms (Arms)
Disciplines: Diamond Mind & Tiger Claw
Stances:
1) Blood in the Water (TC), Stance of Clarity (DM) - Trade for Pearl of Black Doubt (DM4)
2)
3)
4) Pearl of Black Doubt (DM)
5)
6)
7) Prey on the Weak (TC)
8) Wolf Pack Tactics (TC)
9)
Strikes:
1) Wolf Fang Strike (TC), Sapphire Nightmare Blade (DM)
2) Claw at the Moon (TC)
3) Soaring Raptor Strike (TC)
4) Ruby Nightmare Blade (DM)
5) Disrupting Blows (DM)
6)
7) Avalanche of Blades (DM)
8) Diamond Nightmare Blade (DM)
9) Feral Death Blow (TC), Time Stands Still (DM)
Boosts:
1) Sudden Leap (TC)
2)
3)
4)
5) Dancing Mongoose (TC)
6)
7)
8) Girallon Windmill Flesh Rip (TC), Raging Mongoose (TC)
9)
BAB:
1) 0
2) 1
3) 2
4) 3
5) 4
6) 5
7) 6/1
8) 7/2
9) 8/3
10) 9/4
11) 10/5
12) 11/6/1
13) 12/7/2
14) 13/9/3
15) 14/10/4
16) 14/10/4
17) 15/11/5
18) 16/12/6/1
19) 17/13/7/2
20) 17/13/7/2
Total Attacks:
4 (BAB) + 4 Raging Mongoose + 1 Snapkick = 9
or
4 (BAB) + 2
Time stands still + Avalanche of Blades (probabaly will average out to 3 attacks) + 4
Raging Mongoose + 2
Dancing Mongoose + 1
Snapkick = 16 attacks
Rends:
Great Rend (Feat) - I forgot how much this was
Girallon Arms (Soulmeld) - double claw damage + full strength bonus
Two Weapon Rend (PHBII Feat) - do an additional 1d4 + ½ strength modified +1/4 levels
Girallon Windmill Flesh Rip (Manuever) - do 8d6 to 20d6 rending damage
Rending Claws (Bloodclaw Master) - +2d6
Note: All of the rends "should" trigger off of hitting something with both claws.
You'll want to wait until after your 8th attack to trigger the Girallon Windmill Flesh Rip for maximum effect (20d6).
Items to get:
Monk's Belt (Dungeon Master's Guide): +5 levels; 12,000 gp
Monk's Tattoo (Magic of Faerun): +4 levels; 80,000 gp
Fanged Ring (Dragon #308); 10,000 gp +1 size increase
Valorous (+1) enchantment (Unapproachable East) - deals double damage on a charge ~ enchant the Sandals of Tiger's Leap for maximum effect
Sandals of the Tiger's Leap (Sword and Fist) - perform a flying kick as part of a charge that deals double damage; 3,500 gp
Monk unarmed Damage: 1d6 (Monk) + 4 to Monk level (1d8) Superior Unarmed Strike (Feat) + 5 levels (Monks Belt) (1d10) + 4 Levels (Monks Tattoo) - Total = 2d6 Unarmed Damage
Total Damage: 2d6 x 8 (8 attacks) + 4d6
(Girallon Arms)
+ 1d4
(Two Weapon Rend)
+ 20d6
(Girallon Windmill Flesh Rip)
+ 2d6
(Rending Claws) = 256 max damage
With Charging: 256 x 3 (Valorous Sandals of the Tiger's Leap) = 768 Damage
With the 16 attacks from above combo in Total Attacks = 192+24+4+120+12 = 352 Damage
16 attacks while charging (if even possible) =1,056 Max Damage
Abilities:
Battle Clarity (Warblade 1) - Int to Reflex Saves
Uncanny Dodge (Warblade 2)
Battle Ardor (Warblade 3) - Int to confirm Crits
Scent (Bloodclaw Master 5)
Full Strength bonus to damage for my off-hand weapon
Superior Two Weapon Fighting - no -2 penalty
+1 Dodge bonus while in Tiger Stance
+1 to Attack with any Tiger Claw Strike
Low Light Vision (Racial Trait)
+2 Dex (Racial Trait)
+2 Str, Dex or Con while shifiting (Racial Trait)
+2 Str (unnamed bonus) while shifiting (Razorclaw ability)
Wisom to AC when Unarmored (Monk 1)[/sblock]
[Edit: Corrected the combo attacks from 21 to 16 attacks.]
Originally posted by 13x13:
Ed Zero
I don't suppose you could leave out garillion arms and still have an effective build? DM is against Incarnum.
Originally posted by entropicshadow:
I would love to see your Shadowlord build. It would be interesting to compare it to what I came up with.
EDIT: I am in the process of revising my CSM build, and will post it here when I am done. All the clarifications by CustServ make it so Swordsage is possibly better than Warblade for this build.
Originally posted by Ed-Zero:
Hope that helps.
Originally posted by kilroo:
A CSM no more has to be half-drow than the TSL has to have the shadow-walker template, technically speaking...however it can be much simpler to get Dimension Door or Shadow Jump and take two ranks in Knowledge [local-Thesk] than to have the official sanction of the nobility of Dambrath (and the CSM doesn't allow the flexibility in the Region requirement that TSL does).
Typically, from what I have gathered, CSM tends to be used for certain CO exercises, usually concerned with getting Shadow Pounce sooner, as they can potentially have it one levels earlier than a TSL. The TSL seems better for most (not all) actual builds...but perhaps not for a Martial Adept entry. The feat requirements are more demanding, at least for anyone not planning on using Spring Attack (and multipouncers probably rarely will)...I don't know how hard picking up the sneak attack dice is, as I don't actually have ToB yet and have to try to keep track of a lot of secondhand information separately...but in particular, given the way a martial adept would probably use Shadow Pounce, the spellcasting (or race) requirement seems the most troublesome to me, unless it isn't followed to the letter.
Wait...are Incarnum abilities spell-likes? Even on a build with the shadow etcetera maneuvers included from multiple base martial adept classes I could potentially see two levels of Totemist for the Blink Shirt trick being useful...if the ability is spell-like and "as dimension door;" I never did see a definite answer about the latter when I asked wouldn't that mean it had the teleport descriptor, and I never asked about the former. Perhaps a Rogue/Totemist/Swordsage/Warblade/Spellthief entry would work out acceptably.
Of course, you should bear in mind that, coming as I do from the perspective of someone who has never gotten to play a character past level 13, I tend to see shadow pouncing as either a capstone reached too late in the build for me to care much about, or a goal to be reached as early in the build as possible. Which means that I'm willing to give up a lot more optimization than many of you might be in order to make sure I get it...from whichever class I'm using...at the absolute earliest possible level. Which means ECL 10 for CSM or ECL 11 for TSL, and it's a little more clear to me how to manage it with CSM without the character being completely pathetic beforehand.
Originally posted by kilroo:
I'm still trying to decide whether I think a two-level totemist dip might be worth it. It seems to me that it might, particularly if one were to try to run pounces off two Martial Adept classes to get them more often...you'd always have to end with the move-action pounce, but you wouldn't have to get that maneuver on both lists. Or perhaps, if you're running the Adaptive Style trick anyhow, it would be better to use the Blink Shirt for the standard action pounce...less investment, and you couldn't use my trick for one pounce after recovery as a warblade anyhow (well, you could, but you usually wouldn't care). Unless Totemist grants a needed class skill that neither Warblade nor Swordsage covers...
You know, I should probably stop trying to help until I have either MoI or ToB...
Originally posted by Ed-Zero:
Originally posted by wolfie-kun:
*cringes slightly from adding clutter*
Soulmelds themselves are all supernatural, I believe.
As to Ed-Zero's build, for those 21 attacks, are you using both Avalanche of Blades and Raging Mongoose twice each in the same round? I ask since you can't have more than one copy of a maneuver readied without access to the maneuver from another class (maybe not even then, I'll check the CustServ Q&A on that real quick after this post).
The damage amount is still going to be awesome, but not quite so great. If you did something else to get those attacks, it isn't explained well...>.>
Originally posted by entropicshadow:
Title: Claw in the Darkness
Race: Human
Build Stub: Warblade3/Fighter 1/Warblade +1/Fighter +1/Bloodclaw Master 1/Crinti Shadow Marauder 2/Bloodclaw Master +1/Crinti Shadow Marauder +3/Bloodclaw Master +1/Warblade +6
28 pt buy Stats - Str 15, Dex 16 Con 10, Int 14, Wis 10, Cha 8
Final Stats - Str 17, Dex 19, Con 10, Int 14, Wis 10, Cha 8
Final BAB and Saves - BAB 17, Fort 14, Ref 10, Will 5
Final Initiator Level - 16
Feats:
1. Two-Weapon Fighting, (Stealthy)
3. Martial Study (Shadow Jaunt)
4. (Mounted Combat)
6. Iron Heart Aura, (Improved Two-Weapon Fighting)
9. Stormguard Warrior
11. (Ride by Attack)
12. Martial Study (Shadow Stride)
15. Greater Two-Weapon Fighting, (Blade Meditation (Tiger Claw))
18. Martial Study (Shadow Blink)
19. (Combat Reflexes)
Maneuvers:
1. Wolf Fang Strike, Moment of Perfect Clarity, Steel Wind
2. Sudden Leap
3. Shadow Jaunt, Action Before Thought
7. Soaring Raptor Strike
12. Shadow Stride
14. Fountain of Blood
15. Iron Heart Endurance
16. Trade Wolf Fang Strike for Pouncing Charge
17. Finishing Move
18. Shadow Blink, trade Soaring Raptor Strike for Swooping Dragon Strike
19. Girallon Windmill Flesh Rip
20. Trade Steel Wind for Raging Mongoose
Stances:
1. Punishing Stance
5. Blood in the Water
20. Supreme Blade Parry
Notable Class Abilities & Build Features:
- Pouncing on a charge
- Shadow Pounce (3x full attacks)
- Can use Concentration checks instead of its horrid Will save and mediocre Ref save
- Can heal itself up to 40 hp.
- No TWF penalty and full Str bonus to offhand attacks.
Tactics:
This build uses a kukri in each hand. Its attack progression on a full attack is 17/17/12/12/7/7/2 before any modifiers. Typical maneuvers prepared are: Shadow Jaunt, Shadow Stride, Shadow Blink, Pouncing Charge, Iron Heart Endurance, and Fountain of Blood.
The basic attack strategy is as follows. When you get into range of a charge, pounce at the enemy using Pouncing Charge. Trade any attacks you don't think will hit (or even all of them) for touch attacks using Combat Rhythm from Stormguard Warrior. Next round, use Shadow Jaunt, Shadow Stride, and Shadow Blink against the enemy you charged last round. This results in three full attacks. Each hit of these attacks gains +5 damage for each touch attack you made the round before. If they try to move away from you, you should still be able still hit them with at least one Shadow Pounce, probably, more likely 2 or all 3. If they actually run from you, then you take your AoO and grin since they removed themselves from the combat for a round or two. Next round you will have to recharge your maneuvers using a swift action. If an opponent is in range, attack them with a touch attack from Combat Rhythm and make sure to shadow pounce them next turn. Repeat as necessary. Make sure to use Shadow Blink last for pouncing. If you drop them before the third pounce, you can use Fountain of Blood to render other foes shaken. Recommended stance to stay in is Supreme Blade Parry, for the DR 5/-. This helps make up for your lack of HP.
Recommended Equipment:
- Keen Kukris. Wounding and Wrathful healing are good enhancements as well.
- Str, Con, and Dex boosting items. Tomes of these stats are good as well.
Kilroo hit upon most the reason I used Crinti Shadow Marauder instead of Teflammar Shadowlord. It all came down to wasting less feats and that it is easier to qualify for CSM without magic and sneak attack. From a roleplaying standpoint, getting the High Priest of Mask to perform the Rite of Shadow Walking on you is likely only slightly easier than getting the Dambrath nobility to sponsor you.
Thoughts, questions, or comments?
Originally posted by Ed-Zero:
Originally posted by igotsmeakabob:
Lookin forward to my Jade Phoenix Mage build... choosing feats is gonna be tough though.
Originally posted by wolfie-kun:
Originally posted by dboot:
Straightforward, not exactly overpowering, but durable, simple and useful. It focuses on hitting hard and accurately. Martial Discipline Weapons are great for this build, a +5 Diamond Mind Iron Heart Greatsword (or what have you), while using a stance from each style (possible with Stance Mastery), gives you a +7 to hit, which translates to +14 damage via Power Attack (or +56 with DNB), all for 2 points of enhancement.
Human Warblade 20
Feats
01 Adaptive Style, Endurance
03 Steadfast Determination
05 Power Attack
06 Steady Concentration
09 Mage Slayer, Iron Heart Aura
12 Stormguard Warrior
13 Pierce Magical Protections
15 Blind-Fight
17 Pierce Magical Concealment
18 Iron Will
Basic Strategy is as such
Round 1
Swift Action: Enter Stances (Dancing Blade Form ? + Absolute Steel/Stance of Alacrity?)
Move Action: Close distance with opponent (if neccessary)
Standard Action: Pierce Magical Protections
Round 2
Swift Action: Quicksilver Motion (if neccessary)
Full Round Action: Avalanche of Blows + Combat Rhythm
Round 3
Move Action: Close distance with opponent (if neccessary)
Standard Action: Diamond Nightmare Blade + Power Attack
When used in this manner Diamond Nightmare Blade provides you with a 8 to 1 return with Power Attack and +20 damage per hit from last turn, and has the advantage of being a standard action.
Assuming you've used counters, you've used most of your maneuvers and by round 4 may be ready to refresh them (or substitute them using Adaptive Style).
Originally posted by zombiegleemax:
So far, the only thing that really bothers me in this book is the fact that twinned daggers or kukris seem to be the most powerful weapons one can wield.
Originally posted by Ed-Zero:
Here's how it looks now:
4 (BAB) + 2 Time stands still + Avalanche of Blades (probabaly will average out to 3 attacks) + 4 Raging Mongoose + 2 Raging Mongoose + 1 Snapkick = 16 attacks
Originally posted by tleilaxu_ghola:
I can't remember -- is emerald razor a boost or a strike? If it is a strike, it won't work with pierce magical protection. IIRC, pierce magical protection's dispelling strike consumes a standard action. Of course, if emerald razor were a boost, then it would work just fine.
Originally posted by dboot:
Whoops, my bad.
There aren't any particularly good boosts in Iron Heart or Diamond Mind (the specialties of this build), but it does open up more slots for counters like Manticore Parry or what not.
Originally posted by entropicshadow:
Originally posted by igotsmeakabob:
A Jade Phoenix Mage with Wraithstrike and Avalanche of blades is a beautiful thing... let me think, its a 7th lvl manuever, so that requires a 13th lvl initiator, 2 lvls warblade, 4 wiz, 9 JPM and you've got your avalanche of blades and your wraithstrike! And lets see... BAB of +13... not bad for lvl 15 Gish. You'll be cuttin them up! Man thats so cool. Figure a touch AC of 11 (even worse vs bigger enemies), figure a melee of +19 to hit.. thats
1st attack +19
2nd +14
3rd +10
4th +6
5th +2
6th -2
7th -6
and after that its too difficult to hit to rely on. Thats 7 hits at lvl 15 from a Gish character.. man thats so damn cool. Slice cut lunge cut slice slice cut...
With a Longsword (thats just my character) d8+d6+4, average of 12 dmg a hit, 84 dmg total. Now thats impressive for a gish, AND you can repeat it quite often... thats damn cool. It might not be as powerful as other builds but its damn cool to me.
Throw in a bulls strength and some other buffs and man its damn awesome stuff.
EDIT: Just thought about it.. as a Warblade you can change the weapon feats, so take exotic weapon prof. Bastard Sword, thats d10 dmg instead of d8! Yay! And if you find any cool Exotic weapons, 5 minutes in the morning and BAM you're proficient with it!
Originally posted by tleilaxu_ghola:
DBoot, I named your build. If you don't like the name, put one in your post. If anyone doesn't name their build, I'll just add a descriptive (hopefully appropriate) title to it. Hope that doesn't bother y'all.
Originally posted by prototype00:
Errm, not meaning to interrupt or anything, but does anyone have any improvements or comments for Sinshadow? I'm sure feats could be played around with, as can maneuvers.
prototype00
Originally posted by tleilaxu_ghola:
Hmm... well, here's my opinion prototype00 on a shadow sun ninja: Mot9 is draggin' ya down. I'll give you my pseudo-version of how I think a good shadow sun ninja build would go.
Crusader 1/Monk 1/Crusader 2/Cleric 1/Ruby Knight Vindicator 5/Shadow Sun Ninja 10
Why this progression? Mainly because I hate the master of the nine prestige class. It requires too many worthless feats and makes it really difficult to focus on one discipline until you get into the PrC. I like benefits now, not later.
Anyways, The above build is pretty much a proto-type. With this build you still get wis to AC, you get 3rd level divine spells (woo hoo) and 15 BAB. The important thing is though that you aren't bound by those silly Mot9 pre-req feats, you gain access to sacred vitality (which really helps out on the shadow sun ninja thing), and your PrC maneuver progression isn't such a bummer (it's the same as a crusader would normally get). Ruby Knight give access to shadow hand and white raven (two of my favorite disciplines).
I don't know ... it's kind of clunky at the moment, but are you catchin' my drift? Maybe multiclassing with swordsage would be the answer for picking up the shadowhand or setting sun maneuvers. I don't like the redundancy of the wis-to-AC though.
Originally posted by prototype00:
On the subject of Master of Nine, I agree with you on the pre-reqs. But the influx of so many maneuvers known and stances at high level is seriously welcome. Sword sage could probably do it, I suppose, but it doesn't give the same abilities and bonuses (though I will look at a sword sage 9 build...)
I'm quite pleased with the various things this character can do with abilities, especially tornado throw, and he doesn't lose that many ILs doing it too. But thats just a personal preference.
On the subject of your build, it does seem to do some very nifty things (infinite negative levels is cool) but yes unfortunately it does seem a bit clunky. Perhaps if you could give a more streamlined alternative for a Shadow Sun Ninja?
Well, thanks for your comments, I'll think about it and see what I can come up with.
prototype00
Edit: It just hit me that this character has a Bab of 13 at 20th level. That makes me sad.
Originally posted by Lellindil:
alright I whipped this together kinda fast. this build has a crappy BAB, because none of the classes in it have a full progression and it skips around a lot. it does have 2d6 sneak attack, 4d6 if its in assasin stance or +d6 fire damage to all attacks all the time, along with a wide variety of manuevers. this paticular build could get 4 full attacks in 1 round by using the leaping flame manuever (counter). no twf penalty and full strength bonus on both daggers.
Title: Quadra-Pounce Shadowlord
Race: human
build stub: rogue 1/fighter 2/ rogue +1/swordsage 1/rogue +1/swordsage +1/shadowlord 5/swordsage +1/bloodclaw master 2/swordsage +4 (+1 ECL from shadow walker template)
rogue1: twf, dodge
fight1: (mobility)
fight2: (spring attack), blind-fight
rogue2
swordsage1
rogue3: shadowblade
swordsage2
shadowlord1
shadowlord2: improved twf
shadowlord3
shadowlord4
shadowlord5: gloomblade
swordsage3
bloodclaw1
bloodclaw2: adaptive style
swordsage4
swordsage5
swordsage6: greater twf
swordsage7
manuevers:
5: wolf fang strike, sudden leap, cloak of deception, shadowblade technique, distracting ember, burning blade
7: shadowjaunt
13: death from above
14:dancing mongoose
16: trade shadowblade technique for shadow stride, leaping flame
17:searing blade
18: trade wolf fang strike for rabid bear strike, shadow blink
19: inferno blade
stances:
5: child of shadow
7: island of blades
17: fiery assault or assasin stance
notable abilities:
- able to perform 4 full attacks in 1 round
- up to 7th level manuevers from shadow hand, tiger claw and desert wind
- shadow discorporation, so you can't die
- full strength bonus to both weapons
- no penalty for fighting with 2 weapons
- dex to damage
- 2d6 sneak attack, 4d6 in assasin stance
- evasion
- wis mod to dmg on strikes
- wis to ac in light armor
attack bonus before magic, weapon focus, stats, etc:
13/13/8/8/2/2
if anyone can think of ways to improve on this let me know. the major flaw that I would really like to improve is its BAB or an alternate bonus to hit.
Originally posted by Lellindil:
also this is including the shadow walker template if you didn't figure that out.
sorry manuevers readied:
shadow jaunt
shadow stride
shadow blink
leaping flame
dancing mongoose
cloak of deception
with this set up you could activate cloak of deception then use shadow jaunt(or dimdoor) full attack something getting full sneak attack, use shadow stride full attack again with full sneak attack. if something attacks you, assuming its alive use leaping flame counter and full attack it again, no longer sneak attack unless its flanked, which is possible considering u just teleported anywhere adjacent to it.
next turn you could dimdoor or jaunt again (whichever you didn't use) full attack something, then use shadow blink to do so again. then you have a move action left to dance.
at low levels it has burning ember for a flanking buddy. the searing, burning, inferno blade series is also pretty good in my opinion, especialy for a build with lots of attacks.
dex to damage, shadow discorporation, making you close to unkillable. all the fun that goes along with gloomrazor: which gives you more opportunitys to sneak attack.
there are lots of possibilites with all the manuevers and class abilities this build has, its just limited by its to hit.
Originally posted by tleilaxu_ghola:
Name: Sir Ownsalot
Race: Human
Build Stub: Fighter 1/Warblade 1/Fighter +1/Warblade +2/Bloodstorm Blade 4/Exotic Weapon's Master +1/Master Thrower 5/Bloodstorm Blade +5
Feats
1. EWP (Talenta Boomerang), (Point Blank Shot), (Precise Shot)
3. Boomerang Daze, (TWF)
6. Iron Heart Aura
8. (Weapon Focus [Talenta Boomerang])
9. Stormguard Warrior
11. (Quick Draw)
12. Boomerang Ricochet
14. (Snatch Arrows)
15. Power Attack
17. (Weapon Specialization [Talentia Boomerang])
18. Ranged Weapon Mastery
20. (Greater Weapon Focus [Talenta Boomerang])
Notable Class Abilities
Now for the good stuff: How this guy owns.
1. Boomerang ricochet lets you attack two adjacent enemies with one throw. 2. Boomerang Daze dazes the victim with a fort DC = 10 + damage dealt.
3. Stormguard Warrior's combat rhythm allows us to add +5 damage to next round's attacks if we make non-damaging melee touch attacks the first round.
4. Thunderous throw lets us treat our throws as melee attacks and lets us add power attack damage to thrown weapons (if they are not light).
5. Wounding is cheap and we make a lot of attacks. Con damage is good.
6. Ranged Weapon mastery adds 20' range to our already 30' range increment.
So this is what our intrepid hero does:
Round 1: rapid shot + thunderous throw + TWF = Make 6 melee touch attacks (at a distance). Feel free to ricochet these attacks. Depending your interpretation, these attacks may also wound their target if you have a wounding weapon.
Round 2: Thunderous throw + Palm Throw + Weak Spot + Power Attack + Combat Rhythm + Boomerang Daze: Now the proverbial crap hits the fan. Each attack will be touch attacks and you should power attack with impuny. Additionally, each attack will gain +30 damage thanks to combat rhythm. If you sack all 20 BAB you will be dealing approximately 50 damage per boomerang (that equates to DC 60 daze attacks remember). Because you are using palm throw you have 12 attacks to work with. That means you'll be dealing around 600 damage to two adjacent targets, not to mention dazing them with 12 DC 60 daze attacks each. If you use four boomerangs of speed you get 4 more attacks, which means that you'll increase the damage to 1000 per round. If you're some how able to shell out the dough for 4 +1 Iron Heart wounding boomerangs of speed (a total of +7) you'll an extra 16 con damage on top of the aforementioned 1000 damage per round (to two adjacent targets) + the dazing effects.
Oh and if you're worried about attack bonus... take a look at this:
(STR + 2 focus + 1 enhancement + 3 martial discipline +2 weapon mastery + 1 Point blank Shot -3 (TWF + Rapid Shot)) = 6 + STR is your attack bonus w/o base attack. You only make 9 attacks at your highest BAB and 3 at progressively lower bonus. Since these are touch attacks... you have a shot at hitting. If not, just reduce the power attacking at worst you'll never dip below 500 damage.
Originally posted by liamdeclan:
:OMG!
Can someone check this to see if he is correct? This is just... well I don't have words.
Originally posted by zombiegleemax:
That is pretty awesome, but...
... I know you cannot use Thundrous Throw and Palm Throw together. Palm Throw is small, light weapons only so it negates the use of TT and PA.
Originally posted by entropicshadow:
As for TG's build, I can't say if it works or not. Palm Throw says little weapons, not light, though the one melee weapon it mentions (dagger) is light. Of course, since the boomerang is a ranged weapon that has no distinction of light, one-handed, or two-handed, you could easily make the argument that it isn't light, and you can power attack with it. I think this is just a fuzzy interaction of rules that were never meant to interact.
Originally posted by zombiegleemax:
Well I'd definitely argue that a "little" weapon is going to be too small for PA. And if you rule that a boomerang is large enough for PA, it'll now be too big for a Palm Throw and there ya go. At any rate, I don't know all the rest of the abilities so I can't say how the rest holds up...
Originally posted by entropicshadow:
*edited*incorrect assessment*edited*
EDIT: Gah, really should have fully read TG's build. It would appear to work perfectly, since he is only gaining 1x power attack damage on those boomerangs, which is exactly how Thunderous Throw works. Great build TG, it looks to be the thrower to end all throwers.
Originally posted by zombiegleemax:
Also, unless I'm missing something... I don't see a single maneuver being used in this build. And with only token levels in a martial adept class this guys looks like he's in the wrong thread!
Edit: Oh, wait... Bloodstorm Blade. I wondered where that PrC was coming from.
Originally posted by entropicshadow:
The Tome of Battle Build Compendium
Purpose: Provide a good place for people to publish their Tome of Battle infused builds for public enjoyment and criticism. The advantage of compiling builds into one place is so that old builds and ideas do not fall into obscurity, while also providing a readily apparent base for comparison for new builds. All builds will be linked here in this post and credited to the author.
Posting Guidelines:
This is not a contest thread and makes no claims at officiality. However, I would like to impose some basic guidelines so as to facilitate legibility and build comparison. I encourage constructive criticism or general comments, the focus of the thread is to be on the builds presented, however. If you wish to discuss ToB tricks in general, I suggest you take those comments to the ToB Tricks/Combos/Library thread. When submitting a build please use the following basic structure. You may add on more information as you desire or deem necessary.
Other things that would be nice, but not completely necessary:
- A blown out build progression
- Maneuvers taken/suggested
- Base Saves
- Discussion of Abilities
- Recommended Equipment
- Tactics & Tricks
Builds by Category
Caster/Spell Focused
- Wu-Jen TK warrior by Dragon3
- Apocalypse JPM by Dragon 3
- The Phoenix's Shadow by NineInchNall
- Justina, Ruby Knight Inquisitor by NatchFeral
Ability Focused
- The Smartass Warrior by FromTheShadows
- Intelligent Warrior by FiestFan
- Courtblade of Corellon by chifari
Mobility Optimization
- Shadow Wing by wolfie-kun
- Jadefire Runner by phelanarcetus
- Dervish Warblade by xanadu
- Stalking Panther by phelanarcetus
- How Strong is Your Kung Fu? by Zenzei
- Scratch by wolfie-kun
Sword & Board
- Yojo, the Ki Master by Zenzei
- Great Shield Dragon by X-Codes
- Captain America by PhoenixInferno
TWF Optimization
- Beshadowed Blade by Tleilaxu_Ghola
- Beshadowed Blade v2.0 by Gaffer
- Rhythm & Blues by DisposableHero_
- Crypt Flameblade by wolfie-kun
- The Prop Shredder by FromTheShadows
- Blood Craving Two-Weapon Fighting Maniac by Whakapapa
- The Cuisine Art by Infernis
- Blur by Zzasrix
- Lau, the (Gestalt) Wushu Master by Zach2216
- Der Erlkönig by FromTheShadows
- Clawstorm Barbarian by phelanarcetus
- Desert Wind Dervish (scimitar) by RLRapp
- Mantis Thrower by Wildarm
- Drizzt Clone #1 by Katash
- Hesketh the Disemboweler by Rhonin the Big
- Wild Woodclaw Sage
Charging Builds
- Sounds like Rain by Draegun Fury
- Grey Matter by Mordenkainen's Evil Twin
- Kenshin-esque by Grave
Single Class & Single PrC
- Mage Slaying Warblade by DBoot
- AoO Nightmare & Blood Craving Two-Weapon Fighting Maniac by Whakapapa
- Diamond Tiger by TheOne
- Cerulean Firespirit by X-Codes
- Diamond Mind of Iron Tiger by Salt Peanuts
- Tess the Molestress by RadicalTaoist
Tactical Oriented
- The Wizened Sword by Taeldrin Laesrash
- AoO Nightmare by Whakapapa
- Wablade Spiked Chain Fighter by Leugren
- Shock Trooper by RLRapp
- Yakumo the Shura, Mutsu Enmei-ryuu Master by Tsank
- Goat-Ball MVP by smrtgmp
- Jade Protector by phelanarcetus
- The AoO Nightmare's NIGHTMARE! by Gideon_Gideonson
- Waterga Ironstorm Rhonin the Big
- Flank Tank by boffer
- Granite and Iron by RadicalTaoist
- Bess the Molestress by chifari
Maneuvers Oriented
- Sinshadow, the Enlightened Prodigal by prototype00
- The General by TheOne
- Sublime Savant by a_m0ogle
- Master of the Six by Tsank
- Shadow Assassin by sfurtwangler
- Disco Inferno by Zzasrix
- Blastersage by RLRapp
- Prince of the Nine Fold Path by tuefel
- Shadow Dreamer by true_fighter
- Peerless Master of the Sublime Way by Kirech
- Arc, the Man of Many Shields by Rhonin the Big
Gish
- Some Like it Hot by LiamDeclan
- The Ruby Knight by tuefel
- Sublime Phoenix Mage by WarDragon
- The Ruby Shadow by wolfie-kun
- Enlightened Phoenix Fist by wolfie-kun
- Jade Phoenix Beguiler by Todd
- Astral Raven by Zach2216 Uses Gestalt Rules
- Melee Warlock by Dragon3
- The King of Combustion by chifari
- Sublime Swordsage by X-Codes
- Duskblade JPM by Timespike
- Jazra, Ebon Phoenix Beguiler by NatchFeral
- Aihdan, Sublime Phoenix by NatchFeral
- Triple Threat Gish by Katash
- The Phoenix's Shadow by NineInchNall
- Justina's Little Sister by Edea
Throwing Builds
- Sir Ownsalot by Tleilaxu_Ghola
- Sir Ownsalot the Second by Transylvanian
- Ragin' Cajun by Some Like It Hot
- Stormwhisper by prototype00
- Der Erlkönig by FromTheShadows
Natural Attack
- Uber Shifter by obtusehobbit
- Squid Man by Yue Ryong (uses 3.0 material)
Disabling
- D by Ed-Zero
Party Benefit
- The Enhancer by TheOne
- The MMO Tank Wannabe by FromTheShadows
- Deneith Sentinel by Save-vs-DM
Bardic Flavored
- The Reckless Warrior by obtusehobbit
Tank/Defense Builds
- The Energizer Bunny by Zzasrix
- Bear of Stone & Iron by RLRapp
- Bloodstorm Defender by Richmud
- Wildheart Tiger Blade by X-Codes
- Stirge, Immortal Juggernaut of Pelor by Rhonin the Big
- The Jasite Knight by Gaffer
- Untouchable guy by Fallenangel359
- The Ruby Cheerleader by chifari
- Meditant by JanusJones
Critical Hit Optimization
- Desert Wind Dervish (Falchion) by RLRapp
- Master of Critical Mayhem by anarchy1973
Cloak & Dagger
- Death Inescapable by cyberpunks
- Snucking Futs by Darrin_Bright
- Viceral Dreadlord by Tleilaxu_Ghola
Shadow Pouncing
- Sir Bamfsalot by NineInchNall
- Claw in the Darkness by EntropicShadow
- Quadra-Pounce Shadow Lord by Lellindil
- Shadow pouncer #4587 by Jarevin
- Everbouncing Shadow Vindicator by nice2meetU
Miscellaneous
- Rending Machine by Ed-Zero
- Pyrofessor by LiamDeclan
- The Momentary Blade by malisteen
- Maiyr, The Deathbringer of Time by boffer Uses Gestalt Rules
- Dwight, Bastard Son of Elminster by Raven of SD Uses Gestalt Rules
- It's a MAD, MAD world by AndrasOtto
OMFG ROFLCOPTER PWNZ0RZ!!11!!1eleven!1!
All builds are 3.5 compliant unless noted by the build link.
LET THE BUILDS BEGIN!
Originally posted by tleilaxu_ghola:
Title: Beshadowed Blade
Race: Human
Build Stub: Swordsage 4/Warblade 1/Fighter 1/Blood Claw Master 2/Swordsage +1/Warblade +1/Fighter +1/Swordsage +1/Warblade +1/Swordsage +2/Warblade +1/Swordsage +4
Build Progression:
----Class--------------MG---RM--St--Swap-IL(S/W)-Class Abilities-<br />1. Warblade-----------+3----+4--+1-------1-------Weapon Aptitude<br />2. Swordsage----------+6----+0--+1-------2-------Quick to Act +1<br />3. Swordsage----------+1----+1--+0-------3-------AC bonus<br />4. Swordsage----------+1----+0--+0---X---4-------Insightful Strike<br />5. Swordsage----------+1----+3--+1-------4/3-----<br />6. Fighter------------+0----+0--+0-------5/3-----<br />7. Blood Claw Master--+1----+0--+0-------6/4-----Claws of the Beast, Shifting 1/day<br />8. Blood Claw Master--+0----+0--+0-------7/4-----Superior TWF<br />9. Swordsage----------+1----+1--+1-------8/5-----Quick to Act +2<br />10.Warblade-----------+1----+0--+0-------8/6-----Uncanny Dodge<br />11.Fighter------------+0----+0--+0-------9/7-----<br />12.Swordsage----------+1----+1--+0---X---10/7----<br />13.Warblade-----------+1----+0--+0-------10/8----Battle Ardor<br />14.Swordsage----------+1----+0--+0-------11/8----Sense Magic<br />15.Swordsage----------+1----+1--+0---X---12/9----Discipline Focus (defensive stance)<br />16.Warblade-----------+0----+1--+1---X---13/10---<br />17.Swordsage----------+1----+0--+1-------14/10---Evasion<br />18.Swordsage----------+1----+1--+0---X---15/11---Quick to Act +3<br />19.Swordsage----------+1----+1--+0-------16/11---<br />20.Swordsage----------+1----+0--+0---X---17/12---Insightful Strike<br /><br />MG = Maneuvers Gained<br />RM = Readied Maneuvers gained<br />Swap = you can swap out an old maneuver on an 'X'ed level<br />IL = Initiator level<br />(S/W) = Swordsage/Warblade
Feats:
1. Adaptive Style, (Weapon Finesse)
2. (Weapon Focus (Tiger Claw))
3. (Shadow Blade)
6. Iron Heart Aura, (TWF)
9. Stormguard Warrior
11. (Improved TWF)
12. Gloom Razor
15. Greater TWF
18. Martial Maneuver (Girallon Windmill Flesh Rip)
Abilities: DEX>WIS>CON>STR>INT>CHA
Advantages the build offers:
- High Degree of DEX & Wis Synergy: You gain dex to attack and dex to damage at level 3. You gain Wis to AC at level 3 and Wis to damage (on Tiger Claw strikes) at 9th level.
- High AC: Due to the fact that dex and wisdom both contribute to your AC, and you may wear light armor (read mithril breast plate), you have pretty good AC.
- No TWF penalty: At 8th level you don't take any penalty for wielding two tiger claw weapons. Also gets full strength bonus to both on and off-hand attacks (at level 7).
- Stormguard Warrior: Access to stormguard warrior + TWF essentially enables this character to deliver highly damaging, yet highly accurate attacks.
- Gloom Razor: Mixed with many shadow hand maneuvers/boosts this feat is incredible as it is capable of rendering opponents flat-footed without an opposing check. Your rogue will appreciate this
- White Raven TacticS: Gains the ability to grab this maneuver at level 10. Thanks to the warblade recovery system, this could be employed multiple times in an encounter if need be.
- Good initiative: Not astoundingly high, but the good dex synergy + quick to act gives a total of 3+dex to initiative.
- Access to 9th level maneuvers by 20th level. Dual progression provides a large store of maneuvers at the beginning of combat.
Originally posted by MikeN:
Gestalt could get pretty crazy here. OA Shaman would be an incredible synergy class for a build, thanks to the Hero domain (Giant Size, Divine Metamagic cheese), extra martial arts feats, etc.
______
Of course, what this source really does is more of things that really LOOK cool. And adding it to OA is a thing of beauty as well. Wis synergies with Shiba Defender and Swordsage. Int/Cha /Dex synergies with Iaijutsu Master and Warblade...
Something like a Warblade with 2 levels of Soldier of Light, 1 level of Mystic Wanderer, 3 levels of Swashbuckler, 1+ level of Blade Dancer and 5+ Iaijutsu Master...
Originally posted by Lellindil:
when I get to my books I am going to try and work out a telf shadowlord + shadowhand build of some kind. to try and take advantage of the obvious shadowjaunt + shadow pounce. initiator level for higher level manuevers will be the problem if I want to advance sneak attack.
Originally posted by r.213:
There is already one adept/Crinti Mauler multipounce build, I think it's in the "Initial Thoughts" thread.
Originally posted by encard:
Yep - EntropicAdept worked it out, I believe.
I'm going to give a Scout/Swordsage build a shot, when I get the chance. I'm currently partway through a Shadow Sun Ninja build, although it feels a bit uninspired right now. Scout should be fun here, though... There's a fair number of movement-based maneuvers and stances in there.
Originally posted by Lellindil:
crinti pounce requires a mount, that sux in my opinion. crinti are also 1/2 drow so no dice on halfling on a dog.
Originally posted by prototype00:
Title: Sinshadow, the enlightened prodigal.
Race: Half Orc
Build Stub: Monk 2/ Swordsage 3/ Shadow Sun Ninja 10/ Master of Nine 5
Feats:
Mnk1: Dodge, (Improved Unarmed Strike)
Mnk2: (Combat Reflexes)
Mnk2/ SwordSage1: (Weapon Focus, Unarmed Strike), Adaptive Style
Mnk2/ SwordSage3/ Shadow Sun Ninja1: Shadow Blade
Mnk2/ SwordSage3/ Shadow Sun Ninja4: Improved Natural Attack (Unarmed Strike)
Mnk2/ SwordSage3/ Shadow Sun Ninja7: Blind Fight
Mnk2/ SwordSage3/ Shadow Sun Ninja10: Improved Initiative
Mnk2/ SwordSage3/ Shadow Sun Ninja10/ Master of Nine3: Superior Unarmed Strike
Stat progression: Str> Wis> Dex> Con> Int> Cha
Maneuvers:
Note: Some of these levels require the taking of the stance maneuvers before the strike/boost/counter maneuvers. Its not prohibited and works somewhat like qualifying for two feats one after the other.
Show
[sblock]
Monk 2/SwordSage 1:
Burning Blade (DW1)
Stone Bones (SD1)
Wolf Fang Strike (TC1)
Sudden Leap (TC1)
Sapphire Nightmare Blade (DM1)
Counter Charge (SS1)
Child of Shadows (SH1) (Stance)
Monk 2/SwordSage 2:
Cloak of Deception (SH2)
Step of the Wind (SS1) (Stance)
Monk 2/SwordSage 3:
Emerald Razor (DM2)
Monk 2/SwordSage 3/Shadow Sun Ninja 1:
Strength Draining Strike (SH3)
Monk 2/SwordSage 3/Shadow Sun Ninja 3:
Hand of Death (SH4)
Monk 2/SwordSage 3/Shadow Sun Ninja 5:
Step of the Dancing Moth (SH5) (Stance)
Monk 2/SwordSage 3/Shadow Sun Ninja 6:
Mirrored Pursuit (SS5)
Monk 2/SwordSage 3/Shadow Sun Ninja 9:
Hydra Slaying Strike (SS7)
Monk 2/SwordSage 3/Shadow Sun Ninja 10/ Master of Nine 1:
Diamond Defence (DM8)
Quicksilver Motion (DM8)
Monk 2/SwordSage 3/Shadow Sun Ninja 10/ Master of Nine 2:
Wolf Pack Tactics (TC 8) (Stance)
Girallon Windmill Flesh Rip (TC 8)
Monk 2/SwordSage 3/Shadow Sun Ninja 10/ Master of Nine 3:
Five-Shadow Creeping Ice Enervation Strike (SH9)
Time Stands Still (DM9)
Monk 2/SwordSage 3/Shadow Sun Ninja 10/ Master of Nine 4:
Ghostly Defence (SS8) (Stance)
Tornado Throw (SS9)
Monk 2/SwordSage 3/Shadow Sun Ninja 10/ Master of Nine 5:
Raging Mongoose (TC8)
Feral Death Blow (TC9)
[/sblock]
Stances:
Mnk2/ SwdSage1: Child of Shadow (SH 1)
Mnk2/ SwdSage2: Step of the Wind (SS 1)
Mnk2/ SwdSage3/ Shadow Sun Ninja 5: Step of the Dancing Moth (SH 5)
Mnk2/ SwdSage3/ Shadow Sun Ninja 10/ Master of Nine 2: Wolf Pack Tactics(TC 3)
Mnk2/ SwdSage3/ Shadow Sun Ninja 10/ Master of Nine 4: Ghostly Defence (SS 8)
Strategies:
Exhibit A) Shin ("True") Tornado Throw
Monk Movement (70ft) + QuickSilver Motion + Tornado Throw + Wolf Pack Tactics
= +112 to trip attempt.
Also, speed allows for 14 possible trip attempts, the first one starting at a bonus of +32, until the last one is +112.
Exhibit B) Lu Lai Sen Zhang (The approaching palm of the deity)
Monk Movement (+16 to jump checks with 70ft movement/round) + Feral Death Blow + Max Jump (23 + Str) = Quite possibly dead enemy
Exhibit C) Wu Jien Dao (The way that is no way)
Ghostly Defence + Child of Shadow + Double Stance (Master of Nine ability) = Enemies hit themselves half the time
Exhibit D) Qiu Bai Zhang Fa (Undefeated's Technique)
Time Stands Still + Raging Mongoose + Haste = 20 Attacks, 16 of them at highest base attack bonus
Exhibit E) Northern Sidereal Strike
Time Stands Still + Girallon Windmill Fleshrip + Haste = 12 attacks, 8 of which are at their highest attack bonus. If 8 hit, +20d6 damage.
Exhibit F) Flowing Stance
Wolf Pack Tactics + Child of Shadows + Dual Stance + Full attack = Concealment all the time
Recommended Equipment
Show
[sblock]
Collar of Umbral Metamorphosis (ToM)
Monk's Belt
Boots of Speed
Band of Wisdom (head slot)
Shirt of Sheltered Vitality (one use/day shirt, casts 4th level spell sheltered vitality from spell compendium)
This character can't fly, so I recommend at high levels a set of wings of flying. There are cheaper alternatives, but where else are you going to be able to fly around with one bat wing and one wing of pure white feathers? At those levels, its the sty'lin what counts.
[/sblock]
Build Advantages:
Wis to AC in light armor
Wis to AC when not in light armor (necessary to pull off the Tornado throw combo mentioned above)
Evasion
Dex + Str to Damage While in shadow Hand Stance
4d8 unarmed damage (Requires Monk's Belt)
2 Extra attacks at no penalty from flurry
4 Extra attacks from Raging Mongoose (Tiger Claw 8) (Remember they said unarmed strikes count as weapons.)
High Initiator level
4 9th level maneuvers (Diamond Mind, Shadow Hand, Setting Sun, Tiger Claw)
Various Light and darkness tricks via Shadow Sun Ninja
Tip: Use the 4th level Cleric Spell Sheltered Vitality from Spell Compendium to become immune to stat damage (via a one use/day item or something), go to town delivering negative levels.
Build disadvantages
Slightly lower Bab
Middle levels lack Maneuvers of Appropriate levels (stuck with mostly SwordSage Maneuvers from first 5 levels)
Mostly only Maneuvers from 4 schools, no stone dragon high defence abilities.
Feats a bit tight, from Master of Nine pre-reqs.
prototype00
P.s. I'd like to take the opportunity to thank Jin Yong and SNK for their many inspirations concerning this build.
P.s. Realized that all the speed bonuses from boots of speed and monk movement don't stack being enhancement bonuses and all. Therefore this character can only travel 70ft/round. Anyone know of speed bonuses that aren't enhancement?
Originally posted by Ed-Zero:
Here's my build from the posts when I was trying to figure out Rends on the ToB Combo Thread.
Rending Machine
[sblock]Shifter Monk 1/Warblade 14/Bloodclaw Master 5
Feats:
1) TWF (PH) - hit with both hands, Stunning Fist (Monk)
3) Superior Unarmed Strike (ToB)
6) Snap Kick (ToB), Tiger Blooded (ToB)[Warblade Feat]
9) Great Rend (do an additional 1d4 + ½ strength modified +1/4 levels) rending damage
11) Improved Initiative (PHB)[Warblade Feat]
12) Open Lesser Shakra (Arms) [MoI]
15) Shape Soulmeld (Girallon Arms) [MoI]
18) TWR (PHII) - grants a rend when both hands hit (1d6 + 1½ x Strength bonus)
Soulmelds:
Girallon Arms (Arms)
Disciplines: Diamond Mind & Tiger Claw
Stances:
1) Blood in the Water (TC), Stance of Clarity (DM) - Trade for Pearl of Black Doubt (DM4)
2)
3)
4) Pearl of Black Doubt (DM)
5)
6)
7) Prey on the Weak (TC)
8) Wolf Pack Tactics (TC)
9)
Strikes:
1) Wolf Fang Strike (TC), Sapphire Nightmare Blade (DM)
2) Claw at the Moon (TC)
3) Soaring Raptor Strike (TC)
4) Ruby Nightmare Blade (DM)
5) Disrupting Blows (DM)
6)
7) Avalanche of Blades (DM)
8) Diamond Nightmare Blade (DM)
9) Feral Death Blow (TC), Time Stands Still (DM)
Boosts:
1) Sudden Leap (TC)
2)
3)
4)
5) Dancing Mongoose (TC)
6)
7)
8) Girallon Windmill Flesh Rip (TC), Raging Mongoose (TC)
9)
BAB:
1) 0
2) 1
3) 2
4) 3
5) 4
6) 5
7) 6/1
8) 7/2
9) 8/3
10) 9/4
11) 10/5
12) 11/6/1
13) 12/7/2
14) 13/9/3
15) 14/10/4
16) 14/10/4
17) 15/11/5
18) 16/12/6/1
19) 17/13/7/2
20) 17/13/7/2
Total Attacks:
4 (BAB) + 4 Raging Mongoose + 1 Snapkick = 9
or
4 (BAB) + 2
Time stands still + Avalanche of Blades (probabaly will average out to 3 attacks) + 4
Raging Mongoose + 2
Dancing Mongoose + 1
Snapkick = 16 attacks
Rends:
Great Rend (Feat) - I forgot how much this was
Girallon Arms (Soulmeld) - double claw damage + full strength bonus
Two Weapon Rend (PHBII Feat) - do an additional 1d4 + ½ strength modified +1/4 levels
Girallon Windmill Flesh Rip (Manuever) - do 8d6 to 20d6 rending damage
Rending Claws (Bloodclaw Master) - +2d6
Note: All of the rends "should" trigger off of hitting something with both claws.
You'll want to wait until after your 8th attack to trigger the Girallon Windmill Flesh Rip for maximum effect (20d6).
Items to get:
Monk's Belt (Dungeon Master's Guide): +5 levels; 12,000 gp
Monk's Tattoo (Magic of Faerun): +4 levels; 80,000 gp
Fanged Ring (Dragon #308); 10,000 gp +1 size increase
Valorous (+1) enchantment (Unapproachable East) - deals double damage on a charge ~ enchant the Sandals of Tiger's Leap for maximum effect
Sandals of the Tiger's Leap (Sword and Fist) - perform a flying kick as part of a charge that deals double damage; 3,500 gp
Monk unarmed Damage: 1d6 (Monk) + 4 to Monk level (1d8) Superior Unarmed Strike (Feat) + 5 levels (Monks Belt) (1d10) + 4 Levels (Monks Tattoo) - Total = 2d6 Unarmed Damage
Total Damage: 2d6 x 8 (8 attacks) + 4d6
(Girallon Arms)
+ 1d4
(Two Weapon Rend)
+ 20d6
(Girallon Windmill Flesh Rip)
+ 2d6
(Rending Claws) = 256 max damage
With Charging: 256 x 3 (Valorous Sandals of the Tiger's Leap) = 768 Damage
With the 16 attacks from above combo in Total Attacks = 192+24+4+120+12 = 352 Damage
16 attacks while charging (if even possible) =1,056 Max Damage
Abilities:
Battle Clarity (Warblade 1) - Int to Reflex Saves
Uncanny Dodge (Warblade 2)
Battle Ardor (Warblade 3) - Int to confirm Crits
Scent (Bloodclaw Master 5)
Full Strength bonus to damage for my off-hand weapon
Superior Two Weapon Fighting - no -2 penalty
+1 Dodge bonus while in Tiger Stance
+1 to Attack with any Tiger Claw Strike
Low Light Vision (Racial Trait)
+2 Dex (Racial Trait)
+2 Str, Dex or Con while shifiting (Racial Trait)
+2 Str (unnamed bonus) while shifiting (Razorclaw ability)
Wisom to AC when Unarmored (Monk 1)[/sblock]
[Edit: Corrected the combo attacks from 21 to 16 attacks.]
Originally posted by 13x13:
Ed Zero
I don't suppose you could leave out garillion arms and still have an effective build? DM is against Incarnum.
Originally posted by entropicshadow:
Actually, thats not true. The CSM innate teleport ability requires a mount, but its shadow pounce triggers on any teleportation descriptor ability. And you don't have to be a half-drow to get into the class, you just have to have their approval (I know, unlikely, but this is the CO boards).
I would love to see your Shadowlord build. It would be interesting to compare it to what I came up with.
EDIT: I am in the process of revising my CSM build, and will post it here when I am done. All the clarifications by CustServ make it so Swordsage is possibly better than Warblade for this build.
Originally posted by Ed-Zero:
Of course you could. It would free up 2 feats and take you down 1 rend.. Sadly, it's an important rend as it gives 4d6 damage (double damage). I would replace those feats with the exalted feats from BoED that do +1d6 to outsiders each. That won't replace those feats, but it would be a good choice in my opinion.
Hope that helps.
Originally posted by kilroo:
As I read it, CSM neither has to be mounted nor has to be half drow. Without a mount, admittedly, the Shadow Ride ability, Handle Animal and Ride skill ranks, and Mounted Combat feat are wasted, whereas it could be argues that all the TSL's requirements have at least some potential usefulness.
A CSM no more has to be half-drow than the TSL has to have the shadow-walker template, technically speaking...however it can be much simpler to get Dimension Door or Shadow Jump and take two ranks in Knowledge [local-Thesk] than to have the official sanction of the nobility of Dambrath (and the CSM doesn't allow the flexibility in the Region requirement that TSL does).
Typically, from what I have gathered, CSM tends to be used for certain CO exercises, usually concerned with getting Shadow Pounce sooner, as they can potentially have it one levels earlier than a TSL. The TSL seems better for most (not all) actual builds...but perhaps not for a Martial Adept entry. The feat requirements are more demanding, at least for anyone not planning on using Spring Attack (and multipouncers probably rarely will)...I don't know how hard picking up the sneak attack dice is, as I don't actually have ToB yet and have to try to keep track of a lot of secondhand information separately...but in particular, given the way a martial adept would probably use Shadow Pounce, the spellcasting (or race) requirement seems the most troublesome to me, unless it isn't followed to the letter.
Wait...are Incarnum abilities spell-likes? Even on a build with the shadow etcetera maneuvers included from multiple base martial adept classes I could potentially see two levels of Totemist for the Blink Shirt trick being useful...if the ability is spell-like and "as dimension door;" I never did see a definite answer about the latter when I asked wouldn't that mean it had the teleport descriptor, and I never asked about the former. Perhaps a Rogue/Totemist/Swordsage/Warblade/Spellthief entry would work out acceptably.
Of course, you should bear in mind that, coming as I do from the perspective of someone who has never gotten to play a character past level 13, I tend to see shadow pouncing as either a capstone reached too late in the build for me to care much about, or a goal to be reached as early in the build as possible. Which means that I'm willing to give up a lot more optimization than many of you might be in order to make sure I get it...from whichever class I'm using...at the absolute earliest possible level. Which means ECL 10 for CSM or ECL 11 for TSL, and it's a little more clear to me how to manage it with CSM without the character being completely pathetic beforehand.
Originally posted by kilroo:
Beat me to it.
I'm still trying to decide whether I think a two-level totemist dip might be worth it. It seems to me that it might, particularly if one were to try to run pounces off two Martial Adept classes to get them more often...you'd always have to end with the move-action pounce, but you wouldn't have to get that maneuver on both lists. Or perhaps, if you're running the Adaptive Style trick anyhow, it would be better to use the Blink Shirt for the standard action pounce...less investment, and you couldn't use my trick for one pounce after recovery as a warblade anyhow (well, you could, but you usually wouldn't care). Unless Totemist grants a needed class skill that neither Warblade nor Swordsage covers...
You know, I should probably stop trying to help until I have either MoI or ToB...
Originally posted by Ed-Zero:
If you have 1 feat open, you could get the Blink shirt without entering the totemist class (unless the blink shirt requires you to bind it to your chakra, i'm fairly sure it doesn't).
Originally posted by wolfie-kun:
*cringes slightly from adding clutter*
Soulmelds themselves are all supernatural, I believe.
As to Ed-Zero's build, for those 21 attacks, are you using both Avalanche of Blades and Raging Mongoose twice each in the same round? I ask since you can't have more than one copy of a maneuver readied without access to the maneuver from another class (maybe not even then, I'll check the CustServ Q&A on that real quick after this post).
The damage amount is still going to be awesome, but not quite so great. If you did something else to get those attacks, it isn't explained well...>.>
Originally posted by entropicshadow:
Title: Claw in the Darkness
Race: Human
Build Stub: Warblade3/Fighter 1/Warblade +1/Fighter +1/Bloodclaw Master 1/Crinti Shadow Marauder 2/Bloodclaw Master +1/Crinti Shadow Marauder +3/Bloodclaw Master +1/Warblade +6
28 pt buy Stats - Str 15, Dex 16 Con 10, Int 14, Wis 10, Cha 8
Final Stats - Str 17, Dex 19, Con 10, Int 14, Wis 10, Cha 8
Final BAB and Saves - BAB 17, Fort 14, Ref 10, Will 5
Final Initiator Level - 16
Feats:
1. Two-Weapon Fighting, (Stealthy)
3. Martial Study (Shadow Jaunt)
4. (Mounted Combat)
6. Iron Heart Aura, (Improved Two-Weapon Fighting)
9. Stormguard Warrior
11. (Ride by Attack)
12. Martial Study (Shadow Stride)
15. Greater Two-Weapon Fighting, (Blade Meditation (Tiger Claw))
18. Martial Study (Shadow Blink)
19. (Combat Reflexes)
Maneuvers:
1. Wolf Fang Strike, Moment of Perfect Clarity, Steel Wind
2. Sudden Leap
3. Shadow Jaunt, Action Before Thought
7. Soaring Raptor Strike
12. Shadow Stride
14. Fountain of Blood
15. Iron Heart Endurance
16. Trade Wolf Fang Strike for Pouncing Charge
17. Finishing Move
18. Shadow Blink, trade Soaring Raptor Strike for Swooping Dragon Strike
19. Girallon Windmill Flesh Rip
20. Trade Steel Wind for Raging Mongoose
Stances:
1. Punishing Stance
5. Blood in the Water
20. Supreme Blade Parry
Notable Class Abilities & Build Features:
- Pouncing on a charge
- Shadow Pounce (3x full attacks)
- Can use Concentration checks instead of its horrid Will save and mediocre Ref save
- Can heal itself up to 40 hp.
- No TWF penalty and full Str bonus to offhand attacks.
Tactics:
This build uses a kukri in each hand. Its attack progression on a full attack is 17/17/12/12/7/7/2 before any modifiers. Typical maneuvers prepared are: Shadow Jaunt, Shadow Stride, Shadow Blink, Pouncing Charge, Iron Heart Endurance, and Fountain of Blood.
The basic attack strategy is as follows. When you get into range of a charge, pounce at the enemy using Pouncing Charge. Trade any attacks you don't think will hit (or even all of them) for touch attacks using Combat Rhythm from Stormguard Warrior. Next round, use Shadow Jaunt, Shadow Stride, and Shadow Blink against the enemy you charged last round. This results in three full attacks. Each hit of these attacks gains +5 damage for each touch attack you made the round before. If they try to move away from you, you should still be able still hit them with at least one Shadow Pounce, probably, more likely 2 or all 3. If they actually run from you, then you take your AoO and grin since they removed themselves from the combat for a round or two. Next round you will have to recharge your maneuvers using a swift action. If an opponent is in range, attack them with a touch attack from Combat Rhythm and make sure to shadow pounce them next turn. Repeat as necessary. Make sure to use Shadow Blink last for pouncing. If you drop them before the third pounce, you can use Fountain of Blood to render other foes shaken. Recommended stance to stay in is Supreme Blade Parry, for the DR 5/-. This helps make up for your lack of HP.
Recommended Equipment:
- Keen Kukris. Wounding and Wrathful healing are good enhancements as well.
- Str, Con, and Dex boosting items. Tomes of these stats are good as well.
Kilroo hit upon most the reason I used Crinti Shadow Marauder instead of Teflammar Shadowlord. It all came down to wasting less feats and that it is easier to qualify for CSM without magic and sneak attack. From a roleplaying standpoint, getting the High Priest of Mask to perform the Rite of Shadow Walking on you is likely only slightly easier than getting the Dambrath nobility to sponsor you.
Thoughts, questions, or comments?
Originally posted by Ed-Zero:
Good catch wolfie-kun. It would be possible to fully expend my manuevers using Avalanche of Blades and Raging Mongoose in the first round of Time Stands Still, use a swift action to recover those manuevers at either the end of the 1st round or at the beginning of the 2nd round and use both of those again.
Originally posted by igotsmeakabob:
Lookin forward to my Jade Phoenix Mage build... choosing feats is gonna be tough though.
Originally posted by wolfie-kun:
Time Stands still gets you only full attacks, not full rounds. Also, Raging Mongoose takes up your swift action for the round.
Originally posted by dboot:
Straightforward, not exactly overpowering, but durable, simple and useful. It focuses on hitting hard and accurately. Martial Discipline Weapons are great for this build, a +5 Diamond Mind Iron Heart Greatsword (or what have you), while using a stance from each style (possible with Stance Mastery), gives you a +7 to hit, which translates to +14 damage via Power Attack (or +56 with DNB), all for 2 points of enhancement.
Human Warblade 20
Feats
01 Adaptive Style, Endurance
03 Steadfast Determination
05 Power Attack
06 Steady Concentration
09 Mage Slayer, Iron Heart Aura
12 Stormguard Warrior
13 Pierce Magical Protections
15 Blind-Fight
17 Pierce Magical Concealment
18 Iron Will
Basic Strategy is as such
Round 1
Swift Action: Enter Stances (Dancing Blade Form ? + Absolute Steel/Stance of Alacrity?)
Move Action: Close distance with opponent (if neccessary)
Standard Action: Pierce Magical Protections
Round 2
Swift Action: Quicksilver Motion (if neccessary)
Full Round Action: Avalanche of Blows + Combat Rhythm
Round 3
Move Action: Close distance with opponent (if neccessary)
Standard Action: Diamond Nightmare Blade + Power Attack
When used in this manner Diamond Nightmare Blade provides you with a 8 to 1 return with Power Attack and +20 damage per hit from last turn, and has the advantage of being a standard action.
Assuming you've used counters, you've used most of your maneuvers and by round 4 may be ready to refresh them (or substitute them using Adaptive Style).
Originally posted by zombiegleemax:
So far, the only thing that really bothers me in this book is the fact that twinned daggers or kukris seem to be the most powerful weapons one can wield.
Originally posted by Ed-Zero:
Ahh! That was my mistake then. So I would be able to use Dancing Mongoose for 2 more attacks(I'm afb, so hopefully that doesn't take up a swift action).
Here's how it looks now:
4 (BAB) + 2 Time stands still + Avalanche of Blades (probabaly will average out to 3 attacks) + 4 Raging Mongoose + 2 Raging Mongoose + 1 Snapkick = 16 attacks
Originally posted by tleilaxu_ghola:
I can't remember -- is emerald razor a boost or a strike? If it is a strike, it won't work with pierce magical protection. IIRC, pierce magical protection's dispelling strike consumes a standard action. Of course, if emerald razor were a boost, then it would work just fine.
Originally posted by dboot:
Whoops, my bad.
There aren't any particularly good boosts in Iron Heart or Diamond Mind (the specialties of this build), but it does open up more slots for counters like Manticore Parry or what not.
Originally posted by entropicshadow:
Strike, unfortunately.
Originally posted by igotsmeakabob:
A Jade Phoenix Mage with Wraithstrike and Avalanche of blades is a beautiful thing... let me think, its a 7th lvl manuever, so that requires a 13th lvl initiator, 2 lvls warblade, 4 wiz, 9 JPM and you've got your avalanche of blades and your wraithstrike! And lets see... BAB of +13... not bad for lvl 15 Gish. You'll be cuttin them up! Man thats so cool. Figure a touch AC of 11 (even worse vs bigger enemies), figure a melee of +19 to hit.. thats
1st attack +19
2nd +14
3rd +10
4th +6
5th +2
6th -2
7th -6
and after that its too difficult to hit to rely on. Thats 7 hits at lvl 15 from a Gish character.. man thats so damn cool. Slice cut lunge cut slice slice cut...
With a Longsword (thats just my character) d8+d6+4, average of 12 dmg a hit, 84 dmg total. Now thats impressive for a gish, AND you can repeat it quite often... thats damn cool. It might not be as powerful as other builds but its damn cool to me.
Throw in a bulls strength and some other buffs and man its damn awesome stuff.
EDIT: Just thought about it.. as a Warblade you can change the weapon feats, so take exotic weapon prof. Bastard Sword, thats d10 dmg instead of d8! Yay! And if you find any cool Exotic weapons, 5 minutes in the morning and BAM you're proficient with it!
Originally posted by tleilaxu_ghola:
DBoot, I named your build. If you don't like the name, put one in your post. If anyone doesn't name their build, I'll just add a descriptive (hopefully appropriate) title to it. Hope that doesn't bother y'all.
Originally posted by prototype00:
Errm, not meaning to interrupt or anything, but does anyone have any improvements or comments for Sinshadow? I'm sure feats could be played around with, as can maneuvers.
prototype00
Originally posted by tleilaxu_ghola:
Hmm... well, here's my opinion prototype00 on a shadow sun ninja: Mot9 is draggin' ya down. I'll give you my pseudo-version of how I think a good shadow sun ninja build would go.
Crusader 1/Monk 1/Crusader 2/Cleric 1/Ruby Knight Vindicator 5/Shadow Sun Ninja 10
Why this progression? Mainly because I hate the master of the nine prestige class. It requires too many worthless feats and makes it really difficult to focus on one discipline until you get into the PrC. I like benefits now, not later.
Anyways, The above build is pretty much a proto-type. With this build you still get wis to AC, you get 3rd level divine spells (woo hoo) and 15 BAB. The important thing is though that you aren't bound by those silly Mot9 pre-req feats, you gain access to sacred vitality (which really helps out on the shadow sun ninja thing), and your PrC maneuver progression isn't such a bummer (it's the same as a crusader would normally get). Ruby Knight give access to shadow hand and white raven (two of my favorite disciplines).
I don't know ... it's kind of clunky at the moment, but are you catchin' my drift? Maybe multiclassing with swordsage would be the answer for picking up the shadowhand or setting sun maneuvers. I don't like the redundancy of the wis-to-AC though.
Originally posted by prototype00:
I'm understand what you're saying, and believe me, if there was anyway not to have wisdom redundancy to AC I would do it. Sword Sage just gets into Shadow Sun ninja so easily though. Besides, I think its not bad for this character at lower levels to wear some kind of light armor, then at higher levels switch to no armor just in time to pull off the monk movement requiring moves.
On the subject of Master of Nine, I agree with you on the pre-reqs. But the influx of so many maneuvers known and stances at high level is seriously welcome. Sword sage could probably do it, I suppose, but it doesn't give the same abilities and bonuses (though I will look at a sword sage 9 build...)
I'm quite pleased with the various things this character can do with abilities, especially tornado throw, and he doesn't lose that many ILs doing it too. But thats just a personal preference.
On the subject of your build, it does seem to do some very nifty things (infinite negative levels is cool) but yes unfortunately it does seem a bit clunky. Perhaps if you could give a more streamlined alternative for a Shadow Sun Ninja?
Well, thanks for your comments, I'll think about it and see what I can come up with.
prototype00
Edit: It just hit me that this character has a Bab of 13 at 20th level. That makes me sad.
Originally posted by Lellindil:
alright I whipped this together kinda fast. this build has a crappy BAB, because none of the classes in it have a full progression and it skips around a lot. it does have 2d6 sneak attack, 4d6 if its in assasin stance or +d6 fire damage to all attacks all the time, along with a wide variety of manuevers. this paticular build could get 4 full attacks in 1 round by using the leaping flame manuever (counter). no twf penalty and full strength bonus on both daggers.
Title: Quadra-Pounce Shadowlord
Race: human
build stub: rogue 1/fighter 2/ rogue +1/swordsage 1/rogue +1/swordsage +1/shadowlord 5/swordsage +1/bloodclaw master 2/swordsage +4 (+1 ECL from shadow walker template)
rogue1: twf, dodge
fight1: (mobility)
fight2: (spring attack), blind-fight
rogue2
swordsage1
rogue3: shadowblade
swordsage2
shadowlord1
shadowlord2: improved twf
shadowlord3
shadowlord4
shadowlord5: gloomblade
swordsage3
bloodclaw1
bloodclaw2: adaptive style
swordsage4
swordsage5
swordsage6: greater twf
swordsage7
manuevers:
5: wolf fang strike, sudden leap, cloak of deception, shadowblade technique, distracting ember, burning blade
7: shadowjaunt
13: death from above
14:dancing mongoose
16: trade shadowblade technique for shadow stride, leaping flame
17:searing blade
18: trade wolf fang strike for rabid bear strike, shadow blink
19: inferno blade
stances:
5: child of shadow
7: island of blades
17: fiery assault or assasin stance
notable abilities:
- able to perform 4 full attacks in 1 round
- up to 7th level manuevers from shadow hand, tiger claw and desert wind
- shadow discorporation, so you can't die
- full strength bonus to both weapons
- no penalty for fighting with 2 weapons
- dex to damage
- 2d6 sneak attack, 4d6 in assasin stance
- evasion
- wis mod to dmg on strikes
- wis to ac in light armor
attack bonus before magic, weapon focus, stats, etc:
13/13/8/8/2/2
if anyone can think of ways to improve on this let me know. the major flaw that I would really like to improve is its BAB or an alternate bonus to hit.
Originally posted by Lellindil:
also this is including the shadow walker template if you didn't figure that out.
sorry manuevers readied:
shadow jaunt
shadow stride
shadow blink
leaping flame
dancing mongoose
cloak of deception
with this set up you could activate cloak of deception then use shadow jaunt(or dimdoor) full attack something getting full sneak attack, use shadow stride full attack again with full sneak attack. if something attacks you, assuming its alive use leaping flame counter and full attack it again, no longer sneak attack unless its flanked, which is possible considering u just teleported anywhere adjacent to it.
next turn you could dimdoor or jaunt again (whichever you didn't use) full attack something, then use shadow blink to do so again. then you have a move action left to dance.
at low levels it has burning ember for a flanking buddy. the searing, burning, inferno blade series is also pretty good in my opinion, especialy for a build with lots of attacks.
dex to damage, shadow discorporation, making you close to unkillable. all the fun that goes along with gloomrazor: which gives you more opportunitys to sneak attack.
there are lots of possibilites with all the manuevers and class abilities this build has, its just limited by its to hit.
Originally posted by tleilaxu_ghola:
Name: Sir Ownsalot
Race: Human
Build Stub: Fighter 1/Warblade 1/Fighter +1/Warblade +2/Bloodstorm Blade 4/Exotic Weapon's Master +1/Master Thrower 5/Bloodstorm Blade +5
Feats
1. EWP (Talenta Boomerang), (Point Blank Shot), (Precise Shot)
3. Boomerang Daze, (TWF)
6. Iron Heart Aura
8. (Weapon Focus [Talenta Boomerang])
9. Stormguard Warrior
11. (Quick Draw)
12. Boomerang Ricochet
14. (Snatch Arrows)
15. Power Attack
17. (Weapon Specialization [Talentia Boomerang])
18. Ranged Weapon Mastery
20. (Greater Weapon Focus [Talenta Boomerang])
Notable Class Abilities
- Can make iterative ranged attacks with a single weapon (thanks to lightning ricochet)
- Can make two boomerang shots with one shot (Master thrower trick)
- Can make all ranged attacks touch attacks (Master thrower trick)
- Has access to Stormguard Warrior & Power attack
- TWF + Rapid Shot + Palm Throw + EWM's dual wielding = Make 2 extra attacks at highest base attack bonus at a -3 penalty to all attacks. Each of these attacks really releases 2 boomerangs though, so this combo delivers 4 extra attacks.
Now for the good stuff: How this guy owns.
1. Boomerang ricochet lets you attack two adjacent enemies with one throw. 2. Boomerang Daze dazes the victim with a fort DC = 10 + damage dealt.
3. Stormguard Warrior's combat rhythm allows us to add +5 damage to next round's attacks if we make non-damaging melee touch attacks the first round.
4. Thunderous throw lets us treat our throws as melee attacks and lets us add power attack damage to thrown weapons (if they are not light).
5. Wounding is cheap and we make a lot of attacks. Con damage is good.
6. Ranged Weapon mastery adds 20' range to our already 30' range increment.
So this is what our intrepid hero does:
Round 1: rapid shot + thunderous throw + TWF = Make 6 melee touch attacks (at a distance). Feel free to ricochet these attacks. Depending your interpretation, these attacks may also wound their target if you have a wounding weapon.
Round 2: Thunderous throw + Palm Throw + Weak Spot + Power Attack + Combat Rhythm + Boomerang Daze: Now the proverbial crap hits the fan. Each attack will be touch attacks and you should power attack with impuny. Additionally, each attack will gain +30 damage thanks to combat rhythm. If you sack all 20 BAB you will be dealing approximately 50 damage per boomerang (that equates to DC 60 daze attacks remember). Because you are using palm throw you have 12 attacks to work with. That means you'll be dealing around 600 damage to two adjacent targets, not to mention dazing them with 12 DC 60 daze attacks each. If you use four boomerangs of speed you get 4 more attacks, which means that you'll increase the damage to 1000 per round. If you're some how able to shell out the dough for 4 +1 Iron Heart wounding boomerangs of speed (a total of +7) you'll an extra 16 con damage on top of the aforementioned 1000 damage per round (to two adjacent targets) + the dazing effects.
Oh and if you're worried about attack bonus... take a look at this:
(STR + 2 focus + 1 enhancement + 3 martial discipline +2 weapon mastery + 1 Point blank Shot -3 (TWF + Rapid Shot)) = 6 + STR is your attack bonus w/o base attack. You only make 9 attacks at your highest BAB and 3 at progressively lower bonus. Since these are touch attacks... you have a shot at hitting. If not, just reduce the power attacking at worst you'll never dip below 500 damage.
Originally posted by liamdeclan:
Can someone check this to see if he is correct? This is just... well I don't have words.
Originally posted by zombiegleemax:
That is pretty awesome, but...
... I know you cannot use Thundrous Throw and Palm Throw together. Palm Throw is small, light weapons only so it negates the use of TT and PA.
Originally posted by entropicshadow:
The BAB issue is partially why I went with Warblade in my build. Despite the fact I had to take feats to acquire my main maneuvers, the extra BAB and better recovery method seemed to be worth it to me.
As for TG's build, I can't say if it works or not. Palm Throw says little weapons, not light, though the one melee weapon it mentions (dagger) is light. Of course, since the boomerang is a ranged weapon that has no distinction of light, one-handed, or two-handed, you could easily make the argument that it isn't light, and you can power attack with it. I think this is just a fuzzy interaction of rules that were never meant to interact.
Originally posted by zombiegleemax:
Well I'd definitely argue that a "little" weapon is going to be too small for PA. And if you rule that a boomerang is large enough for PA, it'll now be too big for a Palm Throw and there ya go. At any rate, I don't know all the rest of the abilities so I can't say how the rest holds up...
Originally posted by entropicshadow:
Actually, I don't think it matters what size the weapon is. Thunderous Throw allows for power attack with a thrown weapon. It mentions nothing about the size of the weapon.
*edited*incorrect assessment*edited*
EDIT: Gah, really should have fully read TG's build. It would appear to work perfectly, since he is only gaining 1x power attack damage on those boomerangs, which is exactly how Thunderous Throw works. Great build TG, it looks to be the thrower to end all throwers.
Originally posted by zombiegleemax:
Also, unless I'm missing something... I don't see a single maneuver being used in this build. And with only token levels in a martial adept class this guys looks like he's in the wrong thread!
Edit: Oh, wait... Bloodstorm Blade. I wondered where that PrC was coming from.
Originally posted by entropicshadow:
Oh, he has maneuvers. They are just completely unimportant, since they are used to fuel Bloodstorm Blade abilities.Also, unless I'm missing something... I don't see a single maneuver being used in this build. And with only token levels in a martial adept class this guys looks like he's in the wrong thread!
Edit: Oh, wait... Bloodstorm Blade. I wondered where that PrC was coming from.
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