Build the Ultimate Level 6 Warrior! (or, Making Warrior Followers Worth It)

[Halivar]

Another thread talks about how you handle leadership. I got sort of started ranting about how followers are useless.

I want to see if I can be disproven. With a leadership score of 25+, you get 2 level 6 NPC's. For a guy on the move like my level 20 planar champ, I need some tough guys!

So, the challenge is this: without fudging any rules, using a 32-point buy and an expense cap of 300,000 gp, build a level 6 warrior that can hack it as a follower in a level 20+ campaign. Can it be done? I don't know! I don't think so, but I hope I'm wrong!

Let's start those warrior NPC'c coming.

Note to moderators: I didn't put this in rogues gallery because I'm more interested in mechanics, not NPC personalities or backgrounds. It might, however, belong in D&D rules. Forgive me if it does.

 

[Technik4]

Im really not sure its possible. While the 300,000 gold cap is very helpful, doing something meaninful in battle as a warrior during CR 20 encounters seems nigh impossible. The best you could do is outfit your warriors with 1-shot items they could use in battle, they wouldnt have any survivability or attack/damage dealing capability.

Technik

 

[FrankTrollman]

In the 3.5 write-up on Leadership, it never once says that you get NPC classes for your Leadership. In the 3.0 rules, the examples of non-standard followers and cohorts in the text (not the table) all use the CR = Level for assignment (an example is a human with 5 Fighter Levels or a Lizardfolk with 4 Fighter levels - both are CR 5).

In either rules set, it is entirely reasonable to conclude from the text that you can get actually useful things out of your Cohorts and Followers in addition to possibly taking kobold aristocrats like it keeps implying that you should. In the 3rd edition rules set your choice is between a 6th level Gnome Warrior and an Erinyes with no class levels. In 3.5 your choice is between a 6th level Gnome Warrior and a 6th level Gnome Illusionist.

If you take the stuff that is awesome instead of the stuff that sucks - you'll be pretty happy with it, actually.

However, if you absolutely need to get a Warrior for some reason (possibly you are playing 3rd edition rules and your DM won't let you get non-standard creatures, or is forcing you to use Savage Nerfing Level Allowance), I suggest getting a Goblin with Mounted Archery. A 6th level Goblin Warrior can have PBS, Precise Shot, Mounted Combat, and Mounted Archery. That's all the feats you'd want except Rapid Shot (which your attack bonus is a little low to take advantage of anyway).

That's enough equipment to come in with a flaming bow, bracers of archery, and a trained worg. The character can dance around at the edge of combat shooting off an arrow every round which is extremely likely to hit. You'll be handing out around 2d6+4 damage, and hitting probably about 3/4 of the time. That's not stellar, but it's essentially free, stays out of trouble, and wears enemies down without putting itself into direct immediate danger. That's useful at just about all levels.

-Frank

 

[Jeph]

I think your best chance would be to get Adept followers and give them all wands of Lightning Bolt created by the party mage (ie, 10 damage dice) or something like that. Extra energy attacks are always useful, even if they're only 18 damage each (I'm assuming the target almost always saves).

 

[Winternight]

However, if you absolutely need to get a Warrior for some reason (possibly you are playing 3rd edition rules and your DM won't let you get non-standard creatures, or is forcing you to use Savage Nerfing Level Allowance), I suggest getting a Goblin with Mounted Archery. A 6th level Goblin Warrior can have PBS, Precise Shot, Mounted Combat, and Mounted Archery. That's all the feats you'd want except Rapid Shot (which your attack bonus is a little low to take advantage of anyway).

That's enough equipment to come in with a flaming bow, bracers of archery, and a trained worg. The character can dance around at the edge of combat shooting off an arrow every round which is extremely likely to hit. You'll be handing out around 2d6+4 damage, and hitting probably about 3/4 of the time. That's not stellar, but it's essentially free, stays out of trouble, and wears enemies down without putting itself into direct immediate danger. That's useful at just about all levels.

-Frank

I did not calculate the value of this but u mustn`t forget to buy some safty stuff for him.
TO push his saves, some elemantal immunites and stuff like that.
It dosen't matter wheather it deals 2d6+5 od 1d6+3 it is humble in comparison what you do. But it is just like a addition flaming on your sword (if the enemy dosent hav a DR)
To make it a target for the enemy. If it doesn't do much damage, the BBEG won`t bother with him.

 

[Halivar]

Technik4, I am inclined to agree with you. However, remember I'm talking about folks who are not carrying the fight by themselves. These are support troops. What I'm asking is, what would it take to build a level 6 warrior that a level 20 character would say, "I'll take him with me."

Anyhow, here's a sorry excuse for a fighter right here:

Initial stats were Str18, Dex 10, Con 17, Int 9, Wis 9, Cha 9

Jimbob Jones
Level 6 Human Warrior (NG)
HPs: 6d10+24 (55) I couldn't raise enough money to get him a +6 amulet of natural health... looking to toss something else...
Init.: +3 (Dex)
Speed: 20 ft.
AC: 38 (+13 armor, +7 shield, +3 Dex, +5 ring of prot.)
Attacks: (+5, holy) longsword +19/+14 melee
Damage: (+5, holy) longsword 1d8+12 (+2d6 vs. evil)
Saves: Fort +16 / Ref +12 / Will +8
Abilites: Str 24, Dex 16, Con 18, Int 8, Wis 9, Cha 8
Feats: Great Fortitude, Iron Will, Weapon Focus (Longsword)
Equipment: Belt of Giant Strength +6, Gloves of Dexterity +6, +5 holy longsword, +5 mithril full plate, boots of speed, +5 cloak of resistance, +5 ring of protection, +5 large steel shield.

Hrmm... not tough... but two of them, helping out a level 20 party? I can see it. If I could find a way to get them +6 amulets of natural helth they'd have 73 HP's a piece.

 

[Halivar]

BTW, you guys are right... there isn't a 3.5 book anywhere in our gaming group, so we don't even know what the new rules are. Are the new leadership rules in the 3.5 SRD?

 

[Impeesa]

They should be. All that's really changed (as far as I can see) is you're no longer limited to NPC classes for followers.

--Impeesa--

 

[Halivar]

I think your best chance would be to get Adept followers and give them all wands of Lightning Bolt created by the party mage (ie, 10 damage dice) or something like that. Extra energy attacks are always useful, even if they're only 18 damage each (I'm assuming the target almost always saves).

3.0 leadership, if I'm not mistaken, requires that you only take experts, warriors and commoners as followers. So, no adepts...

 

[Planesdragon]

Another thread talks about how you handle leadership. I got sort of started ranting about how followers are useless.

In a planar dungeon-crawling campaign? Yeah, probably. The most that they can do in combat is help flank and "Aid Another."

Leadership is best suited for a more epic "runing the army" campaign, or more terrestrial dungeon-crawling. (They are, of course, BEST suited for helping out in a politicalish setting, where they can command commoner-mobs or staff a castle or run messages...)

The biggest variable in Leadership is if followers get any XP (In 3.5 they don't)--if they do, they can advance and you can have a significant force behind you. As for if they don't--well, the legions of dead in the Civil War didn't stop folk from coming to sign up, so I'd say toss any negative modifiers for followers dying. (In 3.5, you only get a negative modifier if you cause the death of a cohort or follower--but you do get a -1 penalty because you move around a lot.)

And don't forget about the cohort and all the rest of your followers--with a 25 leadership score, you'll get a 17th level follower, AND a grand total of 153 loyal followers. That's enough to have ten elven-man watch sqadrons, two six-man elites groups, and have your cohort and 2 6th level followers with you at all times.


If you're interested in the 3.5 rules, check out the System Reference Document. It's a great place to preview the rules before you spend $30 a head on replacing books that are all still perfectly useable.