[Burning THAC0] B2: The Keep on the Borderlands (ooc/setup)

[Pablohoney]

The only thing that I find potentially cumbersome is the Loyalty belief. Are you going to get many chances to use that? Maybe Engirshonly will think of some good ways to betray us. Although... if you pick a different belief that is very short term, you could wait until we were betrayed, accomplish your first belief, and then switch back.

I agree with you. I was writing beliefs from a more general standpoint at first. I had an idea about coming to the Keep on the trail of someone who betrayed my family. Maybe I could run with that...

 

[Mathalus]

Whatever you decide to make it, you will help yourself out if you phrase it in the short-term. It's often easier to make the belief simply the first step of a larger series of beliefs. Then you snag artha as you check off the steps. Specificity also helps Engrishonly know when they've been triggered.

 

[engrishonly]

Alright, I went deeper with my Induction Quest. I was planning to use it as my motivation to seek out the caves and hope this will suffice. I changed my instincts around to be more defined and skill driven. I wanted to include something about pardoners but everything I came up with was very general. If anyone has an idea for a 3rd belief (replacing the betrayal idea) I'd open to suggestions. I was thinking something along the lines of "Pardoner are heretical" but that's too simple and doesn't call to action. I don't want to take it too far though because of Constance. I also changed my skills just a bit. I have 8 resources left and am thinking about chainmail instead of plated leather, which would leave me with 4. Is it best to spend all the resources right away, or save some? Here he is:

Beliefs:
My Faith is a gift and I must not abuse it. I will only use it to heal those on the verge of death.
I must bring Gadrius the heart of a true creature of Chaos from the Caves of Chaos in order to be accepted into the Order of the Sword.
Loyalty is a bond as deep as blood. I will bring to justice any who betray me or my companions.
Instincts:
Always protect a beautiful woman in danger.
Intimidate when insulted.
Be conspicuous when I enter a room.
Traits: [Dt] Mark of Privilege, [Dt] Tonsured, [Char] Honored, [Dt] Faithful

Relationships: Brother Gadrius, Ranger-Priest of the Borderlands (Minor)

Okay... must be brief, lots to do today.

I'd probably replace that Loyalty one with something about another player character. Even if it is phrased to put Avros at odds with someone (say, Constance, the Pardoner), "Other Player Character" beliefs eventually work towards building a stronger party dynamic & storyline in the end.

I like the Gadrius details. Gives me more insight into who you want him to be & how I can work with him.

You might also want a mechanical "item instinct". "Draw my sword when ...". "Always sleep with a knife under my pillow". This sort of thing.

I like Conspicuous, but is that Instinct going to fit your Paladin? You have to play the blow-hard, "HERE I AM" sort of character if you really want to push that.

 

[Pablohoney]

Okay... must be brief, lots to do today.

I'd probably replace that Loyalty one with something about another player character. Even if it is phrased to put Avros at odds with someone (say, Constance, the Pardoner), "Other Player Character" beliefs eventually work towards building a stronger party dynamic & storyline in the end.

Would something like, "Constance is a liar and a thief. I will make sure she doesn't lead us into trouble" work? I see it as me calling her out if she steals something and I notice, or not trusting her advice, plans, etc. when it comes to party decisions. Or I could do something like "Constance is a heretic. I will show her the true path."

Something else I thought of would be "Vellekyr is the group elder. I will always follow his lead." That might be more of an instinct "Always respect the group elder." IDK. I don't have any good ideas for the item instincts. The Conspicuos instinct isn't my favorite, but it would be a lot of fun to play. Might take a bit for me to get used to it. One last instinct I thought of is "Always bury the dead." I would probably restrict it to goodly humanoid races, like humans, elves, dwarves, gnomes, halflings, etc...

 

[mistrlittlejeans]

Would something like, "Constance is a liar and a thief. I will make sure she doesn't lead us into trouble" work? I see it as me calling her out if she steals something and I notice, or not trusting her advice, plans, etc. when it comes to party decisions. Or I could do something like "Constance is a heretic. I will show her the true path."

Something else I thought of would be "Vellekyr is the group elder. I will always follow his lead." That might be more of an instinct "Always respect the group elder." IDK. I don't have any good ideas for the item instincts. The Conspicuos instinct isn't my favorite, but it would be a lot of fun to play. Might take a bit for me to get used to it. One last instinct I thought of is "Always bury the dead." I would probably restrict it to goodly humanoid races, like humans, elves, dwarves, gnomes, halflings, etc...

I just thought of something that might be fun. What about, "Whenever Constance steals or Pardons I say a prayer for her soul out loud".

This could create a great dynamic between the two - Avros watching over Constance like a hawk, trying with futility, to spare her soul from eternal suffering. You could watch for her to steal things, pardon people, commit other sins, etc., always saying a prayer out loud afterwards, which would be a trigger for Constance and other to know what she was doing. You know what I mean?

I'm imagining a scene where Constance flirts with a noble, who left a golden trinket on a table, she reaches down and swipes it, but Avros catches her. so she begins spouting off a prayer alerting the rest of the party to Constance's deed. The noble looks at all of us like we're crazy!

I think the dynamic to lead to some great DoW's between you two as well.

 

[engrishonly]

Would something like, "Constance is a liar and a thief. I will make sure she doesn't lead us into trouble" work? I see it as me calling her out if she steals something and I notice, or not trusting her advice, plans, etc. when it comes to party decisions. Or I could do something like "Constance is a heretic. I will show her the true path."

Maybe charlatan instead of heretic, but I kind of like the direction there. It helps bring the relationship with Constance squarely into the realm of faith.

Something else I thought of would be "Vellekyr is the group elder. I will always follow his lead." That might be more of an instinct "Always respect the group elder." IDK. I don't have any good ideas for the item instincts. The Conspicuos instinct isn't my favorite, but it would be a lot of fun to play. Might take a bit for me to get used to it. One last instinct I thought of is "Always bury the dead." I would probably restrict it to goodly humanoid races, like humans, elves, dwarves, gnomes, halflings, etc...

Always following the advice of the eldest is interesting if you want to build towards leadership. Think of the instincts as a kind of vehicle for dramatic tension. You have to break from who you were to become the person you are meant to be, and that's the beauty of Instincts in the Burning Wheel.

Item ideas... "Always draw my sword/ready my weapon when confronted by an enemy of the Traladaran immortals", as an example.

"Always bury the dead"... Don't limit it if you choose it. Then it becomes too safe, I think. "Always provide the full funerary rights for any deceased individual," matbe?

The point isn't to limit things to what you want your character to do. It's to submit him to the burning flame of truth. By going through experiences that are difficult, you should be stronger in the end,

Ok, must sleep...

 

[Kobold Stew]

I see it as me calling her out if she steals something and I notice, or not trusting her advice, plans, etc. when it comes to party decisions.

Hey there --

I don't want to say no to this approach, but my sense is that this is especially confrontational (not the specific wording, but the value system here that you're trying to encode in a belief). If that's what you want, then fine, but I expect that calling a thief out if she steals something would happen only once, at which point she would simply leave the party, or would have reasons to see you as a foe.

That's not how I understood the internal conflict generated by beliefs, though maybe that's because I've only ever played with one table.

I realize I may be missing something, or misreading -- I guess some of this is i mistrlittlejeans' post too. But this feels to me to be as strong as "Always attack [elves/dwarves]" when there's an elf or a dwarf in the party. Help the thief reform; show her the error of her ways; make her into an agent for [deity] are all annoying and playable in my mind, but not openly setting the characters at odds.

IMO.

 

[mistrlittlejeans]

Hey there --

I realize I may be missing something, or misreading -- I guess some of this is i mistrlittlejeans' post too. But this feels to me to be as strong as "Always attack [elves/dwarves]" when there's an elf or a dwarf in the party. Help the thief reform; show her the error of her ways; make her into an agent for [deity] are all annoying and playable in my mind, but not openly setting the characters at odds.

IMO.

Yeah, I agree with this. That's what I was alluding too with the "Say a prayer for Constance's soul" idea. that was off the cuff so it could definitely be reworded/improved. It would still create tension and interesting situations without the immediate confrontation. Heck, the first few times Avros could just say a prayer; maybe with each passing incident his prayers get more fervent and pointed towards Constance, thereby escalating the tension.

Just ideas.

 

[Pablohoney]

Yeah, this is what I'm struggling with. I think of ideas and then I can't see them playing out in reality because we would just leave each other's presence or kill each other. That's not what I'm going for. I think there is good conflict to be had between Avros and Constance but I see it growing into that. I think it has to start basic, that's why I originally went with "Never trust a pardoner." It's not very concrete but it plants that seed which could grow in a negative or positive direction. I also like the split in Avros' beliefs with him being at odds with Constance, but interested and insistent on protecting her. He is a young paladin and she's a pretty, young woman after all. I can see that tearing at his emotions.

 

[Kobold Stew]

I think we get each other, and thanks for taking my comments the way they were intended.

Maybe (and I'm just spitballin' here) you could go in the opposite direction:
"Maybe the Pardoner is right." (or whatever)
That's a belief that can have you working against the church (regretfully) while seeking to indentify the tension between these things.

I'm nowhere near as good at these things as engrishonly and Malathus. Trust them.