[C&C] Holy Smokes ... I'm REALLY Impressed!

[thedungeondelver]

As a writer of things C&C, I can tell you that if nothing else the Yggsburgh source material should be worth a look.

I myself penned THE CITADEL, NEWTOWN and am in the process of writing TEETH OF BARKASH NOUR and MARKETGATE SQUARE.

THE CITADEL is an urban fortress that has some good adventure hooks in it (and some downright unexpected ones as well), NEWTOWN is a village of about 1000 souls near Yggsburgh proper that has lots of mini adventures througout.

Gary Gygax, Stuart Marshall, Jon Creffield, David Smith, David Prata, Lori MacVittie, Don MacVittie and everyone else who worked on the projects have produced some top notch stuff.

As noted, you can take all of it and drop it straight in to AD&D as you like.

 

[DungeonMaester]

C&C is an OGL system that aims for an old-school feel and high degree of compatibility with older versions of D&D. It's strongly class-based. It uses "high AC is good" like 3E. It handles skill and feat-like actions with the "SIEGE engine," which is an ability-check based mechanic that is very coarse-grained. That is, it takes a broad approach to covering such activities; rather than a character buying a bunch of skills or abilities, you define a broad, ability-based range of stuff you're good at. Like "my Fighter is good at Str, Wis, and Cha stuff." That's on top of the natural ability you get from stat bonuses.

C&C is very compatible with older versions of D&D. You can use AD&D adventures, monsters, etc with trivial conversion (basically converting the AC by subtracting it from 20 to find the C&C AC). You can do such conversion on the fly. Since it's also related to d20, you can convert 3E stuff, too, but it isn't quite as straightforward.

Many C&C DMs claim that adding house-rules and subsystems to C&C is very easy. C&C is kind of like a "modern OD&D" in that sense: DMs tend to tweak it a lot to suit their taste, and C&C games can vary widely in their rules from DM to DM.

Check out the Troll Lord site for more info (including LOTS of opinions).

Sounds cool. I did not have a problem using High ac=good in AD&D. It was simple enough to wonder if any would could actually have a problem with it. Its only turning - to +.

I may look into C&C if people just give me a funny look when I say 'AD&D 1st Ed' which has been the typical repsonce in my gaming group(s).

I have to say though, Less is more. Books like GURPS, Game of Thrones, IH, and such which cover rules for every last thing you could think of doing is a turn off to players (While the tons of class options are a turn on) but what it comes down to, players want to toss their Bastard Sword through the Evil Wizard with out worrying about if they have a feat, or a ability or other mechanic.

---Rusty

 

[S'mon]

My first proper game of C&C today went pretty darn well. We were using PCs converted from 3e. While the Wizard-8 was still the most powerful character, the Ranger-9 and the Swashbuckler-9 (Fighter-Rogue class) contributed well too. There was a joyous look on the face of the player of the Swashbuckler-9 when he used his Ring of Jumping to fly through the air, made a DEX roll & landed right behind two ogres, backstabbed them with sword & dagger for x4 damage, and killed them both. It was more 'cinematic' than anything I saw in 6 years of 3e number-crunching, and it took maybe a minute of play time to resolve. A new player to the group, new to C&C, commented afterwards how great it was that PCs could do anything, the GM just set a CC (= Difficulty Class) target number, & the player rolled for it, without taking half an hour looking up interminable skills & feats rules. The system seems pretty well ideal for the kind of fast-paced, heroic, rules-light action I love.

 

[Mystaros]

In summary, C&C takes the best parts of every edition of everyone's favorite game, strips down the d20 System (Fantasy) to its core to form the SIEGE Engine, and rebuilds the game based on that... but, unlike in the standard d20 System (Fantasy), the SIEGE Engine is a foundation on which to build, not a rigid structure that must be followed. So if you want to house rule something, unlike in standard d20 System, the whole house of cards won't come falling down around your ears.

Want to make magical weapons exceedingly rare? With C&C, it's a snap. With standard d20, it would cause fits!

Want to change the cleric class? Or the wizard class? Or make something entirely new? You can do it quite easily without worrying much about the balance, and how it affects a "character build," and whether X feat will combine with Y and Z and K and S3 feats to make some monster of a character.

The feel is completely different, too. Whenever I play d20 System (Fantasy) I feel like I'm trying to emulate a freaking videogame. C&C brings back the classic, epic feel of the game as an adventure.

It's not perfect, mind. It has a few problems here and there. Personally, I think the elements that try to emulate the AD&D 1E/2E system just don't feel right. There are some class issues, especially with the barbarian and the monk. But this is all in my opinion; your own mileage may vary. But the best thing is, if I as a judge don't like something, I can change it very easily. The system really puts a lot of control back in the hands of the judge, rather than in the rulebook. "Rule 0" in d20 System was always kind of a joke in practice; in C&C, it's the only rule that matters.

 

[w_earle_wheeler]

That's really just amazingly sad. It still surprises me to this day how poorly run and criminally inadequate some hobby shops are.

In the case of my FLGS, they ordered C&C upon my recommendation. This was the first printing of the C&C Player's Handbook. It was full of errors and typos and the layout was poor. It sat on the shelf collecting dust because no one wanted to buy it (it's still there, actually).

When the revised C&C Player's Handbook came out (the one that is most likely available at Amazon.com and most stores), I was very pleased to see the changes made to it. I bought one from Amazon.com and 3 more from Titan Games.

Sadly, I couldn't really convince my FLGS to order the "new" printing when he still felt burned on the first printing. I can't really blame him. But if I see any C&C Player's Handbooks (the revised printings) at Titan Games this year at Dragon*Con, I'll pick another one up and offer to trade it to him for the current copy he has on the shelf, then I'll trash the old copy so that no one ever sees it.

 

[Korgoth]

I'm impressed with C&C too.

I only have the PHB, with the intention of using it instead of 1e to run 1e mods, if the mood strikes. Is the consensus that the C&C PHB is good enough on its own, or is there stuff in Monsters and Treasure that I can't live without?

 

[S'mon]

I'm impressed with C&C too.

I only have the PHB, with the intention of using it instead of 1e to run 1e mods, if the mood strikes. Is the consensus that the C&C PHB is good enough on its own, or is there stuff in Monsters and Treasure that I can't live without?

I found it very convenient today having both books with me. You _can_ run C&C with say a 1e DMG & Monster Manual, but M&T weighs 1/3 as much as those two and has some handy stuff like monster Primes and item creation rules, and listed XP by monster. One thing it doesn't have is random encounter tables; so I wrote a few at the back of my M&T.

 

[FATDRAGONGAMES]

C&C is great-thumbing though the books was like going through the 1E AD&D books 25 years ago. I wish TLG would come up with some new ways to market the game. Nobody around here knows about it, none of the shops carry it, and it is the best fantasy RPG currently on the market IMHO. I think the the thing I love the most is it doesn't tie my hands as a DM-I still have the freedom I enjoyed with OD&D.

 

[Treebore]

C&C is great-thumbing though the books was like going through the 1E AD&D books 25 years ago. I wish TLG would come up with some new ways to market the game. Nobody around here knows about it, none of the shops carry it, and it is the best fantasy RPG currently on the market IMHO. I think the the thing I love the most is it doesn't tie my hands as a DM-I still have the freedom I enjoyed with OD&D.

Lets say that last sentence a few more times.

 

[JeffB]

I'm an old school gamer ( I hate that term..but started with the brown books right around the time the 1E MM was released) I quit playing in the late 1980s, then kinda got back into D&D around the tail end of 2E. And I was mighty excited about 3E when it was announced.

By the time 3.5 rolled around...I'd had it...for every one thing I loved about 3.x, I could find 3 more things I absolutely hated. Running the game felt like a chore. I quit playing for a coupla year sdue to personal issues, and eagerly anticipated C&C.

I was pretty underwhelmed at first with C&C. But in time, it really grew on me, and although its not perfect, it works alot better for me than the current or previous editions of A/D&D. I like the unified mechanic and some of the other 3E-isms in it, but the game is geared towards the style of 1E and OD&D (whether BB, or Holmes, or Moldvay/Cook, or Mentzer). It just emulates that older style game very well....I don't mean mechanically..it's meant for people who want to get on with the adventure...and not spend their precious free time trying to figure out the best character build, deciphering rules, taking 3 hours to run a combat, and/or spending hours prepping for a session.

I can understand (and hold no malice towards) those who love the mechanical intricasies of 3.x or RMSS or HERO or GURPS. Those who like to "play the game, within the game", so to speak. But I'm not one of those people.

I'm getting ready to sell off my collection of a few hundred RPG books...including roughly 100 D20 products. I'm only keeping my B/X D&D modules/books, a few 3.0 modules from Necromancer games, Pkittys OSM, and the C&C PHB & M&T if that says anything. The few things I like to graft on to C&C from 3.x, I can get from the SRD.

And IMO, M&T is def worth it. I was going to use my 2E monstrous manual, but I prefer the M&T now that I have it, and use my Moldvay/Cook books as well for a few other things.