D&D 5E Camping Equipment Required for Long Rest Houserule

[Flamestrike]

It was part of a “session 0” where I pointed out that most of them were encumbered, so we were a little ahead of the characters actually committing to sleeping in the rough with no supplies, and I wanted to give them the opportunity to make an informed decision.

Yeah but why? Surely its common sense that sleeping in the mud and rain is stupid and leads to exhaustion.

I dont know about you, but I bring sleeping bags and tents camping.

Players: 'Hey DM; what happens if we sleep in the cold and rain without tents and bedrolls'?
DM: 'What do you think would happen (grins evilly)?'
Player: 'Enough said.'

Like I said, if they were stupid enough to head out into the wilderness with no shelter or bedroll, I'd just slap a level of exhastion on them or two, and/ or rule 'no long rest as it was broken by a naughty word sleep'.

I dont think it needs rules, just rulings flowing from common sense.

The only time the question ever gets asked by a player is when they're ignoring common sense for gamist loopholes, and that's something that should be dealt with in a manner other than creating more rules and thinking that should be corrected asap by a DM.

 

[Hriston]

Yeah but why? Surely its common sense that sleeping in the mud and rain is stupid and leads to exhaustion.

I dont know about you, but I bring sleeping bags and tents camping.

Players: 'Hey DM; what happens if we sleep in the cold and rain without tents and bedrolls'?
DM: 'What do you think would happen (grins evilly)?'
Player: 'Enough said.'

Like I said, if they were stupid enough to head out into the wilderness with no shelter or bedroll, I'd just slap a level of exhastion on them or two, and/ or rule 'no long rest as it was broken by a naughty word sleep'.

I dont think it needs rules, just rulings flowing from common sense.

The only time the question ever gets asked by a player is when they're ignoring common sense for gamist loopholes, and that's something that should be dealt with in a manner other than creating more rules and thinking that should be corrected asap by a DM.

I wouldn't go as far as exhaustion, but the ruling I've made is that under certain conditions, lacking proper equipment denies you the benefits of sleep. The point of the thread was to work out what those conditions are, so the players could make an informed decision.

I think you're right that there was some "gaming" of the system going on, which I think had to do with a lack of experience playing with the Encumbrance variant on the part of the players and facing the hard choices that entails with regard to what to include in their equipment.

Bringing tents and bedrolls may seem like a forgone conclusion to us, living in a time and place where such items are readily available, but such availability is fairly anachronistic in a generic medieval fantasy setting (which is what my game is set in), and I don't like to assume the PCs are stupid due to a lack of system mastery on the part of the players.

 

[Flamestrike]

I wouldn't go as far as exhaustion

I would. Heaps of precendent for it in the DMG:

Whenever the temperature is at or below 0 degrees Fahrenheit, a creature exposed to the cold must succeed on a DC 10 Constitution saving throw at the end of each hour or gain one level of exhaustion. Creatures with resistance or immunity to cold damage automatically succeed on the saving throw, as do creatures wearing cold weather gear (thick coats, gloves, and the like) and creatures naturally adapted to cold climates.

That's extreme cold (-18 degrees C) but the save is every hour.

There is also the rule in Xanathars where missing a nights sleep triggers a DC 10 Con save or suffer a level of fatigue.

I would happily rule that a night in the rain and mud/or and cold without shelter and/or a bedroll triggers a DC 10 Con save (either from the cold, or from near total lack of sleep); on a failure you suffer a level of Exhaustion. On a really cold night, I'd impose disadvantage on the save.

And seeing as you already need to sleep (barring elves) for 6 hours to gain the benefits of a long rest by RAW, a player that decided not to bring a sleeping bag and shelter isnt getting the benfits of a long rest due to not getting a solid 6 hours of sleep unless they make that Con save either.

Tents hold a few people, so they can be split up among the party (just like normal hikers do). A blanket will also suffice for a bedroll (you can roll your cloak up into a pillow) unless the temperature gets really cold.

I think you're right that there was some "gaming" of the system going on, which I think had to do with a lack of experience playing with the Encumbrance variant on the part of the players and facing the hard choices that entails with regard to what to include in their equipment.

If the question is even asked, those players need to be slapped down instantly to stop any future attempts at gaming the system.

Player: 'Hey DM; do we need a bedroll and tent when we're camping? I'm leaving mine at home.'
DM: 'What do you think? (grins evilly) How about you try it and find out?'

Bringing tents and bedrolls may seem like a forgone conclusion to us,

Your players are 'us.' I dont really get the anachronistic bit either; people needed shelter in the dark ages just as much as they need it now.

I mean, only an idiot wanders off into the woods for a long hike with no shelter or sleeping bag, unless they're a survival guru (and even then they take a shelter, relying on survival skills n an emergency).

 

[Oofta]

... Bringing tents and bedrolls may seem like a forgone conclusion to us ...

This is kind of an odd statement IMHO. People were probably more aware of the elements (even those that live in cities) than we are. But tent ... well that doesn't really need to be much. A piece of tarp, some rope and a couple of sticks is all you need. If there are trees you don't even need the sticks. Might not keep the bugs out, but it's not like people would notice much of a difference. I camped plenty of times with old canvas army surplus tents, they can actually be quite comfy. Close the flaps and the mosquitoes weren't even all that bad once you took care of the ones that came in with you .

 

[Hriston]

I would. Heaps of precendent for it in the DMG:

That's extreme cold (-18 degrees C) but the save is every hour.

Yes, I'm using that rule if it ever gets that cold. The party's currently in a swamp at roughly the latitude of Lisbon (or Wilson's Promontory in the southern hemisphere), so it isn't that cold, but it's winter, so they're experiencing some cold weather, and record low temperatures could occur.

There is also the rule in Xanathars where missing a nights sleep triggers a DC 10 Con save or suffer a level of fatigue.

I don't really use XGtE for much, except for allowing player options. The main consequence of no or restless sleep in the game I'm running at the moment is no long rest benefit (which requires 7 nights because I'm using Gritty Realism), and it makes staying awake during a watch the next night require a CON check.

I would happily rule that a night in the rain and mud/or and cold without shelter and/or a bedroll triggers a DC 10 Con save (either from the cold, or from near total lack of sleep); on a failure you suffer a level of Exhaustion. On a really cold night, I'd impose disadvantage on the save.

I'm just ruling that not having shelter in rain results in no/restless sleep without a save. Same with inadequate warmth. I guess my approach is to not move to dice resolution as much and for the consequence to be bad sleep and its attendant effects rather than the exhaustion track.

And seeing as you already need to sleep (barring elves) for 6 hours to gain the benefits of a long rest by RAW, a player that decided not to bring a sleeping bag and shelter isnt getting the benfits of a long rest due to not getting a solid 6 hours of sleep unless they make that Con save either.

Tents hold a few people, so they can be split up among the party (just like normal hikers do). A blanket will also suffice for a bedroll (you can roll your cloak up into a pillow) unless the temperature gets really cold.

Right, I'm already doing that under certain conditions (see the table I posted up-thread for details), except there's no save.

If the question is even asked, those players need to be slapped down instantly to stop any future attempts at gaming the system.

Player: 'Hey DM; do we need a bedroll and tent when we're camping? I'm leaving mine at home.'
DM: 'What do you think? (grins evilly) How about you try it and find out?'



Your players are 'us.' I dont really get the anachronistic bit either; people needed shelter in the dark ages just as much as they need it now.

I mean, only an idiot wanders off into the woods for a long hike with no shelter or sleeping bag, unless they're a survival guru (and even then they take a shelter, relying on survival skills n an emergency).

They seem like mostly newer players (it's online and I don't know any of them personally), and I think there was an issue of what their relationship was to their character's decision making process, i.e. whether they could rely on their characters to make these decisions for them. So even though I think most of them have played before, I get the feeling it was in games where the equipment list was mostly handwaived.

 

[Hriston]

This is kind of an odd statement IMHO. People were probably more aware of the elements (even those that live in cities) than we are. But tent ... well that doesn't really need to be much. A piece of tarp, some rope and a couple of sticks is all you need. If there are trees you don't even need the sticks. Might not keep the bugs out, but it's not like people would notice much of a difference. I camped plenty of times with old canvas army surplus tents, they can actually be quite comfy. Close the flaps and the mosquitoes weren't even all that bad once you took care of the ones that came in with you .

From the little research I did, apparently it was rare in the Middle Ages for travelers to carry tents unless they were part of an organized military excursion. And bedrolls/sleeping bags would have required someone dedicated to sewing them, if they existed at all. So I think the idea of specialized camping gear is a somewhat modern one. I agree with you though about affinity for the elements, and I think the ability to construct a shelter out of available materials (or materials you brought) was probably widespread, and that Survival is a good model for that.

 

[Flamestrike]

They seem like mostly newer players (it's online and I don't know any of them personally), and I think there was an issue of what their relationship was to their character's decision making process, i.e. whether they could rely on their characters to make these decisions for them. So even though I think most of them have played before, I get the feeling it was in games where the equipment list was mostly handwaived.

Thats the exact reason you should smack them down.

Not in a mean way, but in a firm but fair way.

I prefer to have them think about as if THEY were their characters (hence why my response above- what do you think would happen + evil grin). That makes them reflect on their character as an extension of themselves freezing and cold and miserable in the rain and mud without a tent, and how stupid that would be (and makes the question look as stupid as it is).

You're setting a firm 'dont treat this as a game with rules to be manipulated or I'll punish you' approach early.

You're teaching them how to be better players, and setting the standard from day 1. Once you've done that, they'll know not to push you.

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

If I want real info on this kind of stuff for a very simulationist game, I will go and talk with the military people I know who had to go through these kinds of conditions and still had to get up early in the morning and perform the task. And then I will take that information and adjust how it effects the characters based on their classes, skills and backgrounds. A city Mage with no survival training is damn sure going to perform more poorly in bad conditions than a Ranger who is trained.