can you weapon finesse a two handed double weapon?

[Rogue problem]

Since the book says to treat the off hand attack of a double two handed weapon as a light weapon I was wondering if you could get the weapon finesse feat to apply to it when welding it that way and making two attacks with it.

 

[Jhulae]

Finesse works with the offhand side of the weapon only. So, that'd be the secondary attack or attacks (with improved twf).

 

[Nonlethal Force]

I'm not sure what exactly you mean.

You can always make two attacks if you have a double weapon or two seperate weapons. One with each weapon. Or, in the case of a double weapon, you get one atack with each end.

Of course, there are varius penalties. (-6/-10) With a double weapon you don't take penalties for the off-hand weapon since it is light. So, your penalties are reduced to (-4/-8).

There are two (or maybe more) non-magical ways to be able to get multiple attacks with your off-hand weapon. You can take the Improved and Greater TWF from PHB and that'll give you multiple off-hand attacks. Or, you can have a BAB of +6/+1 or higher and use those main attacks with your off-hand weapon and thus neglecting to use your main hand.

As far as I know, you can't trade the main hand attack for an extra off-hand attack when TWF without the BAB to back it up.

 

[RigaMortus2]

I'm not sure what exactly you mean.

You can always make two attacks if you have a two-handed weapon or two seperate weapons. One with each weapon. Or, in the case of a two-handed weapon, you get one atack with each end.

You mean double weapon, right? A two-handed weapon would be a Greatsword. A double weapon would be the Two-Bladed Sword.

 

[Nonlethal Force]

You mean double weapon, right? A two-handed weapon would be a Greatsword. A double weapon would be the Two-Bladed Sword.

TYeah. Totally messed that one up. That's what I get for watching Mythbusters while typing. Darn Adam and Jamie!

I'll edit to fix. Thanks for pointing it out!

 

[Darklone]

Now, if your DM lets you use the old chainmaster prclass where you can use a spiked chain as double weapon... you might use both ends with finesse.

 

[nute]

Since the book says to treat the off hand attack of a double two handed weapon as a light weapon I was wondering if you could get the weapon finesse feat to apply to it when welding it that way and making two attacks with it.

Answer - yes.

Assume a fighter wielding a quarterstaff. Fighter has a +5 BAB, 10 STR, 18 DEX, Weapon Finesse, and Two-Weapon Fighting.

Extra attack at +5, both attacks at -2 (for TWF and off-hand weapon being light), light weapon gets +4 for Weapon Finesse.

Attack would go: +3 (first end, one-handed weapon), +7 (second end, light weapon getting the finesse bonus)


Edit: It would go +7/+3, since you always make attacks from highest bonus to lowest.

 

[Nonlethal Force]

Attack would go: +3 (first end, one-handed weapon), +7 (second end, light weapon getting the finesse bonus)


Edit: It would go +7/+3, since you always make attacks from highest bonus to lowest.

Yes, but the OP wanted to make both attacks with the light side, not make the light side more than the one-handed side. As far as I know, there is no non-magical way to make two attacks with the off-hand side of a double weapon without Improved (or Greater) TWF or intentionally using itterative attacks with the off hand.

 

[nute]

Yes, but the OP wanted to make both attacks with the light side, not make the light side more than the one-handed side. As far as I know, there is no non-magical way to make two attacks with the off-hand side of a double weapon without Improved (or Greater) TWF or intentionally using itterative attacks with the off hand.

As per the SRD:

Two-Weapon Fighting
If you wield a second weapon in your off hand, you can get one extra attack per round with that weapon.

and

Double Weapons
You can use a double weapon to make an extra attack with the off-hand end of the weapon as if you were fighting with two weapons. The penalties apply as if the off-hand end of the weapon were a light weapon.

So if you use Two-Weapon Fighting with the quarterstaff, only your added attack is with the off-hand side. Say both ends (A and B) have different properties. You have a +6/+1 BAB.

Regular attack: +6 with end A or B
Full attack: +6/+1 with end A or B, but both attacks must be with the same end.
Double-Weapon Full Attack (with TWF feat): +4 with end A (one-handed), +4 with End B (light weapon), -1 with end A (one-handed).

EDIT: Following from this, let's take our fighter from the previous example. BAB of +6/+1, STR of 10, DEX of 18, Weapon Finesse, and Two-Weapon Fighting. Quarterstaff end A is cold iron, B is silver.

Regular Attack: +6 with end A or B. A quarterstaff is not finesseable in this use.
Full attack: +6/+1 with end A or B. Also, not finessable in this use.
Double Weapon Full Attack: +8 with End B, +4 with End A, -1 with End A. This is because the off-hand attack (End B) is the only light weapon being used, and thus the only one that benefits from Weapon Finesse.

Until you hit Improved Two-Weapon Fighting, you cannot get more than one attack with the finesseable end, no matter what you do UNLESS the off-hand end has the Speed enchant, which would allow it an extra attack at your highest BAB. In which case if End B has the Speed property, our fighter would attack at: +8 with end B, +8 with end B, +4 with end A, -1 with end A.

Which leads to another question - if you're using Two-Weapon fighting and BOTH weapons have the Speed enchant, you get two extra attacks, one with each? Dang, that could get abusive. No wonder it's so expensive.

 

[nute]

Full attack: +6/+1 with end A or B, but both attacks must be with the same end.

Hold up, let me question my own assumption here. Do they have to be with the same end? If I have a +6/+1 iterative attack sequence, and I'm holding a shortsword in one hand and an axe in the other, can I attack at +6 with the sword and +1 with the axe?

The SRD seems to not say one way or the other... hmm.