Carrion Crown AP (Savage Stampede) - OOC

[Herobizkit]

Elf is not a very good priest because the stat bonuses are sub-optimal for this class (med armor + shields, wisdom used for casting).

I see where you're coming from - but the gentleman in question is trying to build a cleric/rogue hybrid (there are rules to support multi-class hybrids in the 3.5 Unearthed Arcana - wonder if HM would support that?). I don't know how to accomplish the reverse - make a Rogue with some Cleric goodness - without making a Bard and taking the same feats I've suggested.

Only weapon finesse able weapons and low str without any source of bonus damage (example: sneak attack) gives only poor melee capabilities. Also clerics can use shields and shields can reduce your attack bonus wwith weapon finesse.

If this character is designed as a ranged combatant, medium armor reduces her movement (but does allow up to a +3 bonus for Dex) and can't use a shield with a bow or crossbow anyhow... unless she uses a buckler. The Weapon Finesse is to off-set her already dismal melee ability by allowing her to hit more often, even if it's a -1 to damage, and rapiers have a high crit.

vagabound gives disable device, but perception (needed to find traps) is still not a cleric class skill.

That, I did not catch. I'd need to dig around some more to figure that one out.

Half-elves can get a wis bonus, a free weapon proficiency, and one can choose both rogue and cleric as favored classes.

Free weapon proficiency? I missed that one, unless you're talking about the Cleric's favored weapon proficiency.

Look at the Urban ranger for a good trap monkey with decent damage and divine spell casting at higher levels.

Or a Bard.

 

[rangerjohn]

That wouldn't work either. He would have a max dex of 12, if he had high str. Which would mean he would have to wear medium armor for decent ac. Which would a penalty to skills. So your talking about a 2 or 3 disable device by the time all is said and done.

 

[rangerjohn]

As for the free weapon proficiency, I believe he's talking about the alternate racial ability that replaces the skill focus.

 

[Herobizkit]

And as HM 'said', a cleric ranger with a decent str and wisdom will work better at fighting and finding traps than a cleric with high dex and the vagabond trait.

Well, sure! A Ranger is better than a Cleric at fighting by default... but she could still go ranged-combat specialized with low strength and high Dex.

For maximized casting, you cannot multiclass any way.

HM alluded to the fact that the modules top out at 16th. That gives 13 levels of cleric to get a 7th-level slot (which gives Rez, but by then the adventure will largely be over) with 3 to play with, or 11 cleric levels to get a 6th-level slot with 5 to play with.

If [MENTION=2469]rangerjohn[/MENTION] still wants to multi, it's more advantageous to take the higher skill-point class as his first level and bump his Int up, which the Elf +2 Int does. Even if he takes a 10 Int, the +2 will give him an extra 4 skill points which could then go into his Disable Device added on to whatever his starting class would be.

Here's why I design characters the way I do:
- most games I play top out somewhere between 5th-10th level.
- the sessions tend to be spaced far apart
- I strongly dislike first level
- in PbP's, this time is stretched even further

So, I tend to stack the low levels as tightly as possible to get the character I want to play NOW, knowing that looking forward to something further down the line may never come to pass.

My play style has also evolved to High Dex/Low armor type characters. Even my fighters tend to be Dex-based or multi-classed with a Dex-connected theme.

 

[rangerjohn]

HM has hinted the cleric will be needed before the rogue. As for skill points to put into disable device, you can't put more than one in at first level.

 

[Herobizkit]

That wouldn't work either. He would have a max dex of 12, if he had high str. Which would mean he would have to wear medium armor for decent ac. Which would a penalty to skills. So your talking about a 2 or 3 disable device by the time all is said and done.

Exactly. Rogue focus = light armor + High Dex. And if you're going to have high Dex and skills, you might as well build your character around that - hence the Elf race, ranged combat and Weapon Finesse.

As for the free weapon proficiency, I believe he's talking about the alternate racial ability that replaces the skill focus.

Elf gives you lots of weapons, including a longsword (which can't be finessed, but the odds of finding a magic one is high). You'd lose that free skill focus, though.

 

[Walking Dad]

I see where you're coming from - but the gentleman in question is trying to build a cleric/rogue hybrid (there are rules to support multi-class hybrids in the 3.5 Unearthed Arcana - wonder if HM would support that?).

But why does he want to play a rogue? And can the wishes be fulfilled by another class, too?

I don't know how to accomplish the reverse - make a Rogue with some Cleric goodness - without making a Bard and taking the same feats I've suggested.

I think this wouldn't be the same. Still no channeling or domains.
(The inquisitor has a domain, for example.)

If this character is designed as a ranged combatant, medium armor reduces her movement (but does allow up to a +3 bonus for Dex) and can't use a shield with a bow or crossbow anyhow... unless she uses a buckler. The Weapon Finesse is to off-set her already dismal melee ability by allowing her to hit more often, even if it's a -1 to damage, and rapiers have a high crit.

Mithral and MW allow for even more, but the point is that he can already gain a decent AC.
And he would need a decent Str anyway to carry his stuff and to do damage with the mighty variant of the bows,

That, I did not catch. I'd need to dig around some more to figure that one out.

Eyes and Ears of the City trait.

Free weapon proficiency? I missed that one, unless you're talking about the Cleric's favored weapon proficiency.

Ancestral Arms: Some half-elves receive training in an unusual weapon. Half-elves with this racial trait receive Exotic Weapon Proficiency or Martial Weapon Proficiency with one weapon as a bonus Feat at 1st level. This racial trait replaces the adaptability racial trait.

 

[rangerjohn]

The skill focus probably isn't a biggie, but losing the two favored classes would probably hurt. That's a sp or hp every level. Plus the hp loss from -2 con.

 

[Herobizkit]

HM has hinted the cleric will be needed before the rogue. As for skill points to put into disable device, you can't put more than one in at first level.

I'm sure a Cleric who can area-effect damage undead would be highly useful in a starting adventure that has been identified as heading into an undead-infested something-or-other...

If you take the Vagabond Child trait, you get Disable Device as a class skill, which allows you to max out the allowable skill points (4). You need a higher Int than 8, though.

 

[Walking Dad]

Exactly. Rogue focus = light armor + High Dex. And if you're going to have high Dex and skills, you might as well build your character around that - hence the Elf race, ranged combat and Weapon Finesse.

Elf gives you lots of weapons, including a longsword (which can't be finessed, but the odds of finding a magic one is high). You'd lose that free skill focus, though.

Rogue gets sneak attack to off-set the low Str.

Not arguing that the elf is good for rogues and wizards. I only dislike them for clerics.

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You are posting fast

You don't loose Multi-Talented by loosing Adaptability.