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Castle & Crusades - who has tried it and not stuck with it?

Jack Daniel

dice-universe.blogspot.com
I tried it, but I find that it's not my cup of tea for two reasons. First, as mentioned above, it's not anywhere near as "complete" in feeling as B/X or Classic. And second, I really, really don't like that you add your level to most d20 rolls (like class skill checks and saves), as well as to the TN of any effect that you cause. That makes the primary die mechanic start to break down after level 12 or so, making high-level play, well, not playable.

The fact that the game really only "works" for low level play, and the fact that pallies and rangers don't get spells, and the fact that just about everything screams "1st edition!!!", all just point to a game that was written to be one particular group's vision of what D&D is supposed to be -- but not mine.

I was raised on Classic (BECM/RC) and 2e, so a retro game would have to feel like either of those versions to keep my interest. As it stands, I tend to play Classic, but I did pirate a few ideas from C&C, like saving throws based on the six abilities (it's far easier to adjudicate in various situations than OD&D's five categories of attack forms).

To make the numbers work out, I set the base target number at 15 (which is the average of all five saving throw numbers for a 0-level "normal human", and also, I think, no coincidence that it happens to sit right between C&C's base target numbers of 18 and 12), and adventuring PCs add a +1 bonus to this roll, which improves by one point at every three experience levels. This is key -- every three levels, rather than at every level. Essentially, while C&C characters are adding a +12 bonus to their saves at 12th level, I've designed my game so that Classic D&D characters don't have a +12 bonus until the 34th-36th level range (which is, of course, the maximum level in BECM/RC).
 

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JDJblatherings

First Post
I gave C&C a try and i may use it again for another campaign. I'm currently playing using BFRPG as that is giving me a more basic style game then C&C did.
 



wothbora

First Post
cperkins said:
I've done something similar to your project... please check it out and feel free to throw constructive criticism my way.

http://homepages.nyu.edu/~dp58/AD&D3.pdf

Definitely take a look at cperkins project... It has accomplished what I have been searching for (endlessly) for the past 3 years... A work of art with old school feel (streamlined and elegant).

I am already making plans to use this for my "engine" to run all of my campaigns...

Excellent job CPerkins, excellent work and craftsmanship!!!

Wothbora
 

Napftor

Explorer
I CK'ed the intro adventure from the box set sometime last year. C&C was something I really wanted to like (and for my players to like it as well) although this was probably more for nostalgia than anything else. Well, we played it and universally gave it a "no thanks." All agreed it was easier but that didn't make it better. One thing in particular was amusing...the group's cleric couldn't hear an opponent approaching because he didn't have the Listen ability. :) We even kind of missed AoO!

In the end, it seemed to us like C&C is to D&D 3.x as a dinner knife is to a swiss army knife: both can perform the same function but one comes with way more cool options.
 

Odhanan

Adventurer
Dragonhelm said:
My ideal system is somewhere between C&C and D&D.

I think my ideal system and "feel" for D&D is somewhere between C&C, 1st ed and 3rd ed. What I intend to do for my next campaign is build a sort of Advanced C&C where the players on their side of the screen just need the C&C Player's Handbook while I use AD&D's DMG and other personal variants on my side of the screen.

Then, I'll see from there whether I sharpen the Siege mechanic or not, add customization opportunities similar to feats for the players to choose from, Stunts/Challenges from Iron Heroes, and so on, so forth.

That's my base idea for now. We'll see how it goes!
 

Dragonhelm

Knight of Solamnia
Odhanan said:
I think my ideal system and "feel" for D&D is somewhere between C&C, 1st ed and 3rd ed. What I intend to do for my next campaign is build a sort of Advanced C&C where the players on their side of the screen just need the C&C Player's Handbook while I use AD&D's DMG and other personal variants on my side of the screen.

Then, I'll see from there whether I sharpen the Siege mechanic or not, add customization opportunities similar to feats for the players to choose from, Stunts/Challenges from Iron Heroes, and so on, so forth.

That's my base idea for now. We'll see how it goes!

I'm starting to have a few second thoughts myself. After seeing Star Wars Saga Edition and thinking about 4e, I wonder if that's more up my alley. We'll see.
 


mxyzplk

Explorer
I played C&C but didn't go back for more. Even though it was streamlined, it was too AD&D 1e for me. I was a second level cleric and, just like it was back in 1e days, I sucked. One Light, one Cure Light, and then I was an easily killed fighter. In both C&C and 1e, characters of a given class are just too much like one another - there's practically zero customizability. I felt like "Ah yes, I did this for 10 years back in the day. Time has not treated it well."

The up side is that it's less complex, but the 3e complexity doesn't start hurting real bad until you get to near level 10.
 

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