Changes to the assassin

[IcyCool]

I was looking over the assassin the other day, and aside from the fluff, couldn't see any reason for the Alignment and Special pre-requisites. The PrC makes an excellent spy, scout, or thief, just as well as it makes an assassin. As such, I propose the following changes:

1. Either eliminate the alignment pre-requisite, or change it to read, "Any non-good". The Black Flame zealot is another prestige class that gains the Death Attack ability, and it doesn't require an evil character. Why does the assassin require an evil character? (Aside from fluff)

2. Eliminate the special pre-requisite. If you are taking the PrC to be a spy, why should you have to kill someone for it?

3. Change the name and fluff. The name assassin really jumps out and grabs people. It practically screams evil. Call it "Shadow Knife" or somesuch, and alter the fluff to reflect that they aren't psychotic killers.

4. Tell me to stuff it, and just play an evil character if I want the PrC abilities.

 

[Rystil Arden]

I agree with you on #1, but I strongly disagree on #2 and #3. If you want a "Shadow Knife Scout" PrC, make one, and we'll all be glad to help critique it. One of the cool things about LEW as opposed to other PbP games where you probably either started as an Assassin or will never hit a PrC is that we can really enrich our world and characters with RP requirements like the Assassin's special requirement.

 

[Velmont]

I disagree. The Assassin PrC is that, an Assassin. It has Death Attack special power and Poison Use (and because of that, bonus save to poison). A few of his spell are assassin Oriented (True Strike, Locate Creature, Poison). It lack special power more social oriented. An assassin need to reach there target, wherever they are, but doesn't need to stay around for long, and a traget is always a living creature.

A spy have to stay around someplace for long, have sometimes a need to find objects. He would need more social bonus (Bonus to Disguise, Bluff, Forgery), false identity. If he become a spellcaster, he would need some spell like Locate Object. And he could have a good use to some quick change ability.

Instead to start to change a PrC, why don't you simply build one. I don't feel the Assassin have a need of change. This PrC is the most cold hearted assassin type. The Rogue is a quite good assassin with his sneak attack, and can be a quite good spy if you gives him skill mastery on a few key skills (Bluff, Disguise and Forgery).

 

[IcyCool]

I disagree.

So, option 4 then?

The Assassin PrC is that, an Assassin. It has Death Attack special power and Poison Use (and because of that, bonus save to poison). A few of his spell are assassin Oriented (True Strike, Locate Creature, Poison). It lack special power more social oriented. An assassin need to reach there target, wherever they are, but doesn't need to stay around for long, and a traget is always a living creature.

Well, according to the assassin fluff in the DMG, spies excel at infiltration and disguise, and often act as spies and informants. Death Attack can be used to paralyze. As to True Strike, Locate Creature, and Poison being assassin oriented, tell that to the wizard and druid. As far as bonuses to disguise are concerned, how about the +10 from disguise self or alter self? Not to mention its a class skill and prerequisite. And Locate Creature is a very effective spell for a spy.

Good point on the poison use though.

A spy have to stay around someplace for long, have sometimes a need to find objects. He would need more social bonus (Bonus to Disguise, Bluff, Forgery), false identity. If he become a spellcaster, he would need some spell like Locate Object. And he could have a good use to some quick change ability.

Invisibility, Alter Self, Disguise Self, Clairvoyance/Clairaudience, Glibness, Modify Memory, Search and Bluff as class skills.

Instead to start to change a PrC, why don't you simply build one. I don't feel the Assassin have a need of change. This PrC is the most cold hearted assassin type. The Rogue is a quite good assassin with his sneak attack, and can be a quite good spy if you gives him skill mastery on a few key skills (Bluff, Disguise and Forgery).

Because the PrC would look exactly like the assassin, minus a few prerequisites (I would probably ditch poison use), and can't see why that wouldn't get shot down "because there's already a prestige class for that". And honestly, this is about as much effort as I'd like to throw at this. Basically, I could argue this, or propose a big change (or new PrC), or I could skip the concept, or I could change the 'N' in the 'LN' I was envisioning to an 'E' and go murder some farmer's wife.

Your feat suggestions for a rogue enhance the assassin just as much.

 

[IcyCool]

I'll also add that adventurers routinely and repeatedly break into the homes of and murder living creatures (often sentient) so that they can take their stuff. And there is no requirement that adventurers be evil.

 

[Rystil Arden]

I'll also add that adventurers routinely and repeatedly break into the homes of and murder living creatures (often sentient) so that they can take their stuff. And there is no requirement that adventurers be evil.

Yep, and that's partially why I'm with you on #1, though I don't agree with the rest.

 

[IcyCool]

Yep, and that's partially why I'm with you on #1, though I don't agree with the rest.

I'd gladly see a change to the Special requirement, instead of just eliminating it. Maybe multiple options, "Kill someone for no real reason, Subdue someone for no real reason, Steal something for no real reason, etc."

 

[Manzanita]

I like the idea of having 'assassins,' & I have several NPCs who are heading that direction. I'd prefer to keep the assassin as a PrC.

I don't see why you couldn't propose something nearly identical. Simply change some minor fluff like you mentioned, and modify a few class skills/spells. Give it a name & a brief background. If its very similar to an existing PrC, then the proposal shouldn't get too bogged down in a debate over its power level. I think its a good idea.

 

[Velmont]

A few presision, Skill Mastery isn't a feat, but a Special Power of the Rogue. you gain it ta level 10 of Rogue, so you delay a lot your assassin progession if you try to get it.

And I don't tell the Assassin wouldn't make a good spy, but he wouldn't be the best. If you think it take only a few twick, I would tell you want to play a spy/asssassin, not a spy. My vision of a spy would have things like:

- Bonus to Bluff, Disguise and Forgery or some alternate identity
- Quick Change to allow to change disguise
- Some kind of connection with a network of informant
- In case he is a spellcaster: Charm-Person, Detect Secret Door, Comprehend Language, Detect Thought, Locate Object, maybe even Scying.

Things I don't feel as something that should be in a Spy PrC:

- Death Attack (Why you would want to attack someone, it will blow off your cover? A spy have other way to get there information)
- Poison Use
- Spells (True Strike, Magic Circle against Good, Poison)

Things that could be modify, but could stay too:

- Sneak attack (Combat is not the way of the spy, but it doesn't harm to know how to knock off a guard in one hit or to know how to defend hisself)
- Uncanny Dodge (same reason)

With all these changes, it would make a great spy.

My point is not that an assassin wouldn't do a good spy (he would), but he wouldn't make the best of all. An arcane trickster or a simple rogue would make a just as good, but the best of all, I don,t think there is one yet.

And if you like the death attack class ability, I agree it shouldn't be only accessible to evil character, but I think the assassin class is quite well like that.

 

[IcyCool]

A few presision, Skill Mastery isn't a feat, but a Special Power of the Rogue. you gain it ta level 10 of Rogue, so you delay a lot your assassin progession if you try to get it.

Right, I was thinking skill focus. But the same goes for delaying the assassin progression.

Things I don't feel as something that should be in a Spy PrC:

- Death Attack (Why you would want to attack someone, it will blow off your cover? A spy have other way to get there information)

Combat is not the way of the spy, but it doesn't harm to know how to knock off a guard in one hit or to know how to defend hisself

- Spells (True Strike, Magic Circle against Good, Poison)

True Strike ties into the combat element above, but I can see the point on Magic Circle against Good (which seems like an afterthought tacked onto the list because the assassin is eeevil). Poison is a druid spell, and again ties into the one-hit combat element above.

It seems like people think that a near exact copy of the assassin would be preferrable to changing the existing class. If I have the time, I'll come up with something. If not, oh well.