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Changing class need help
- Thread starter Killoth
- Start date
pdegan2814
First Post
I would start by reading the Paladin Guide posted in this forum here - http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?468742-GUIDE-Oathbound-The-Paladin-Guide
It's got a good breakdown of the class, it's abilities/spells/etc. For the stats, you're going to be a melee fighter who also casts spells using Charisma. That pretty much tells you where to focus your stat progression. But at the end of the day, do what YOU want to do. Look at the different Oath options and what they offer. Look at the Paladin spells. Decide what kind of Paladin YOU want to be. Paladins, like Clerics and Druids, have access to their entire spell list, they don't learn specific spells like Wizards, Warlocks & such do. They're just limited in how many different spells they can have ready to use at any one time. So, pick some spells that you think you'll find useful. If you think you want to switch them up, then at the next Long Rest you can swap them for different ones. Over time you'll probably find that you'll have a few standbys that you always keep prepared, and others that you swap in and out depending on the situation your party is heading into.
But if you just want somebody to spoonfeed you a character build, rather than actually creating a character for yourself, you're missing out on one of the most rewarding aspects of Dungeons & Dragons.
Kithas
First Post
If someone finds more enjoyment from playing and just wants to know they aren't going to be holding their team back in terms of optimization I see no reason to insult them or require them to learn how to make a character well if that's not what they find fun. I'm all for empowering people to make their own characters/decisions but looking down on someone because they do not enjoy the game the same way you do is not acceptable.
A bigger problem is that there are no "best" paladin.
- How do you want to roleplay?
- How will you assist your party?
You should discover how each oath can help you satisfy those two points and skim the guides for which spells can further those goals. Then come back here for the finer points and saves from traps.
This forum shouldn't be about steering players toward our favorite builds, but discovering new concepts that fit specific contraints we never dreamed of. So bring us your dream!
pdegan2814
First Post
Wasn't meant as an insult or to look down on you, just saying that the process of character creation has always been a major component of D&D, if you're skipping over that to have someone hand you a fully built character, I believe you're missing out on a big part of what makes the game so enjoyable. The way you describe playing makes it feel more like a sport than a social activity.
And even if you want to know how to avoid "holding your team back", isn't better to actually learn how the class you want to play actually works, and what makes a good build of that class, rather than just have someone hand you a build? That way you'll have a better understanding of WHY you'd focus on certain traits & abilities depending on what you want to do with your character, and will be in a better position to advance with that character without having to come back to someone and say "OK, I'm about to hit Level 5 now, what do I take next?"
Seriously, go read the guide at the link I posted. Actually, looks there's an updated one here - http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?474035-GUIDE-My-Word-Is-My-Sword-The-Paladin-Guide
They cover everything. Attributes/races/backgrounds/proficiencies/class abilities/oaths/spells/feats, suggestions on weapons & armor, and even possible multiclass combos. Most importantly, it'll give you an understanding of why each aspect might be good or bad. But ultimately, it comes down to what bid said. What sort of Paladin do you want to be? Both from a mechanical and roleplaying perspective. Do you want to be a compassionate defender of the innocent, a righteous crusader, the Fist Of God, etc? If you're definitely taking the Sentinel feat, that means you're probably going to be standing in the middle of the battlefield, so that means a melee fighter, and that means you'll probably be taking your fair share of hits. Do you want to rely on superior armor to keep from taking damage, say with a sword and shield? Do you want to limit the damage by killing the enemy as fast as possible and swing a greatsword? Do you want to control more of the battlefield with a glaive or halberd, extending the range of the abilities that Sentinel gives you? Do you want spellcasting to be a major part of who you are, or just a minor supplement to your martial prowess? All of those choices are completely valid for a Paladin. But you've got to decide for yourself what sort of Paladin you want to play.
Igot my stats 14+2 str, 10dex,14 con,int 10, 8 wis, and 15+1 char I think this will be a good balance. I am going with fighting style defense for the +1 ac and my shield so my ac is at 19. I chose the Vengeance oath. I chose to go with the sentinel feat to aid my Vow of Enmity. I want a balance between being a tank and dealing damage. I have no idea what spells I should prepare or how many I should have. he is a paladin of bahamut and sees himself as bahamut's justice.
pdegan2814
First Post
Well the number of spells you can have prepared is based on your Charisma modifier and Paladin level. And being a tank is indeed a tricky balance. You have to be able to absorb damage, but you also have to be enough of a threat that the enemy can't simply ignore you and aim for the other members of your party. You likely won't have that problem. As for which spells to prepare, there are always the standbys like Cure Wounds & Bless, those are almost never a waste to have ready(even if you have a Cleric in the party, having them ready as a backup can be handy). You may also want at least one of the Paladin's Smite spells(different from the Divine Smite ability, the Smite spells do extra damage on a hit plus add an effect of some kind). As a Vengeance Paladin you also get Hold Person as a 2nd-level spell, which can be a godsend for a melee combatant. If the target fails the save they're paralyzed, meaning attacks against them have advantage, and hits from melee range are auto-crits. Catch your target in that, then unload with a Divine Smite for MASSIVE spike damage. Just keep an eye on which spells you're picking require concentration. If too many of your spells require it, you may find yourself unable to cast what you want because it'll break the spell you're holding. Along those lines, I would definitely work on getting your Con score up. If you're going to be a tank you'll want to boost your HP, and taking a lot of hits means making a lot of Concentration saves. If you find that Con saves are more of an issue than HP, consider taking Resilient(Con) instead of a straight +2 to Con, even if it leaves you with an odd-numbered score. Failing a Con save is NO fun, that's stuff like being poisoned, petrified, etc. The kind of stuff that can really mess up your day.
shouldn't I go with though instead it gives me a +8 to my health and +2 with every level. so I should have 3 spells that I can have prepared + my two from my oath but I can only cast 3 max untill I reach level 5 correct?
pdegan2814
First Post
If you mean the Tough feat, someone in another thread made a compelling case why Con+2 is almost always a better choice. Tough gets you an extra 2 HP per level. Adding 2 to your Con score gets you an extra 1 HP per level, PLUS you heal an extra 1 HP per Hit Die when you spend them to heal on a Short Rest, as well as a +1 to your Con saves. All added together, the +2 to Con works out better. Now, if your Con score is already at 20, or you're already proficient in Con saves and that extra +1 is less of an issue, then Tough is a more viable option.
As for Tough vs. Resilient(Con), I'd still say Resilient(Con) would take priority, though Resilient(Con) vs. a straight Con+2 is trickier. Keep in mind that you have to make a Con save EVERY time you take damage while holding concentration on a spell, sooner or later you're going to roll poorly even if the DC is only 10. So between those and straight-up Con saves, you'll have to decide for yourself if you need to be proficient in them.
As for the spellcasting, the class description lays it all out for you. You can cast a certain number of spells per day, using the spell slots you're allocated based on your Paladin level. The spells you cast must be one of the spells you prepare at the beginning of each game day(technically, you can change your prepared spells when you finish a long rest, but the practical version is each morning when you wake up), and the number of spells you can prepare each day is based on a formula involving your Paladin level and your Charisma modifier. The spells you gain from your Oath are extra and don't count towards that total(some Oath spells are unique to that Oath and some are just standard Paladin spells that ones who take that Oath get for "free"). And when you choose which spells to prepare each day, you can choose any spell on the Paladin list that's at a level you have spell slots for. So if you have 1st and 2nd level spell slots, you can choose all 1st level spells if you like, or choose all 2nd level spells, and save the 1st level slots for Divine Smite, etc.
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