Character Builder and Monks

[klofft]

I thought I understood monks, weapons, and ki foci, but the builder has me confused.

One of my players has a monk with the ki focus expertise feat. On each of his power cards, he has 4 lines for attack bonus:

Monk Unarmed Strike
Ki Focus
Quarterstaff
Ki Focus Monk Unarmed Strike

I don't get this. As a monk, his quarterstaff can be a ki focus - so shouldn't the attack bonus be the same? Quarterstaff is listed as 1 point lower.

Monk Unarmed Strike is one point lower than Ki Focus, but I assume that's because of the feat.

But Ki Focus Monk Unarmed Strike is the same as Ki Focus (i.e., one point higher than quarterstaff).

So my two related questions:
1) Shouldn't the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th entries have the same attack bonus (and isn't the first entry sort of superfluous)?
2) Why specifically is the quarterstaff one point lower in attack bonus?

For the record, his STR and DEX are the same.

Please help me figure this out!

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

I'm not familiar enough with monks to sort this all out, but I believe unarmed strikes give a +3 bonus to hit if proficient, and the staff only gives a +2.

(Also, the CB can give up to three different attack bonuses for the same attack. The number at the bottom is the most accurate one.)

 

[Ferghis]

For monk implement attack powers (which are all of them, as far as I know), to calculate bonuses to attack and damage, the only line that matters is the Ki Focus (or other implement) line.

If you're using the quarterstaff as an implement, then you can use the quarterstaff's enhancement bonus instead of the Ki Focus enhancement bonus, but proficiency bonuses do not apply.

One of my players has a monk with the ki focus expertise feat. On each of his power cards, he has 4 lines for attack bonus:

Monk Unarmed Strike
Ki Focus
Quarterstaff
Ki Focus Monk Unarmed Strike

So my two related questions:
1) Shouldn't the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th entries have the same attack bonus (and isn't the first entry sort of superfluous)?

The first one will have no proficiency bonus given by the weapon chosen, since it's probably an implement attack, and proficiency bonuses do not apply. The second one would have both the Ki Focus and the expertise bonus. The third would only have the enhancement bonus for the quarterstaff, and the fourth would have the both the enhancement bonus for Ki Focus (assuming the unarmed strike has an enhancement bonus that's smaller than the Ki Focus' enhancement bonus) and the bonus derived from Ki Focus Expertise.

The CB has a column in the first tab of the equipment section that determines what "items" are listed on power cards (it's often hidden to the right, and you have to scroll over to it or shrink the other columns to make space for it). Sometimes an item that was checked at one point of the adventurer's career becomes irrelevant later, but it remains checked, so it still shows up on the cards.

2) Why specifically is the quarterstaff one point lower in attack bonus?

For the record, his STR and DEX are the same.

The simple quarterstaff will not have the ki focus expertise feat bonus.

 

[Nichwee]

I don't get this. As a monk, his quarterstaff can be a ki focus - so shouldn't the attack bonus be the same? Quarterstaff is listed as 1 point lower.

I believe this is your mistake.
His quarterstaff can be his IMPLEMENT but it is not a Ki Focus (which is a TYPE of implement). It is the same as saying a Wand is not an Orb, but both are implements for a wizard.

So the quarterstaff doesn't get the Ki Focus Expertise +1 to Atk (nor does the Unarmed Strike when it is being used as an implement under the "Any weapon proficient with" rather than the "Your Unarmed Strike counts as a Ki Focus" rule - which I am not versed enough to be familiar with).