Character Death and New PCs

[MerakSpielman]

I see. Well, I don't like nerfing Raise spells because then I have to take it a bit easier on the PCs. I gotta nerf the (I think) fun insta-kill spells and whatnot. My PCs are paranoid enough about death as it is without making raising harder. The idea of losing a level is enough to make them tremble in their boots and try to find clever ways around what I thought would be an easy combat.

But that's a discussion for another thread.

On topic, starting at 1st level is fun, but impractible after the rest of the party passes level 5 or so. Cowering in the back isn't much fun. Starting a level below the rest of the party seems ok.

 

[JoeBlank]

We use 1/2 of the average XP of the surviving party members. At low to mid-levels this will usually be only 1 or 2 levels behind the rest of the party. We have not made it to higher levels yet, so I have not looked at how far behind this will put new characters.

And MerakSpielman, you don't have to take it easier on PCs just because the raise spells are not as available. Your players can react by being more cautious, or by making up new characters more often.

 

[Datt]

the higher the level of the PCs, the more (in)famous they become. so why wouldn't a 1st lvl character want to hang out with the "Heroes".

besides, with the EL trend of xp progression. lower level characters who survive an encounter will get more xps. and will soon catch up. secret is surviving.

but if the "Heroes" (higher lvl PCs) are heroes they will do their best to protect the novices. or start to earn a negative reputation.

Yes I am sure they would. But you have to hope that your DM doesn't go into the first combat and have the BBEG cast magic missile at him and kill him in the first round. Or hell we have even fought higher level assassin that killed my 14th level fighter in one death attack. Even though my party was trying to protect each other there is just so much you can do.

 

[Datt]

duplicate post

 

[MerakSpielman]

Joe: They are already TOO cautious. Our games have been known to go through several sessions without a combat.

They don't want to try new characters, either. Right now they're making up their new characters for my new campaign, and they're working on backstories. The campaign is still a couple months away from starting. They put a LOT of work into their characters.

 

[Emerald]

And MerakSpielman, you don't have to take it easier on PCs just because the raise spells are not as available. Your players can react by being more cautious, or by making up new characters more often.

I play in MerakSpielman's game and we are very RP heavy, we would not like the idea of spending 1 1/2 years developing a very intrecate storyline for our character, and then just have to drop it and start over.

 

[JoeBlank]

My apologies to MerakSpielman and Emerald. I did not mean to sound like one of those "Why don't you just play the way I play?" types. But I think I did.

As a group, we had to make a decision. We all dislike easy raising from the dead, and we also like heavy role-play with intricate backstories. In DnD, we have found that you can't have both. Characters are going to die, even if they are careful.

After accepting the first few character deaths, we have moved on to less character-specific plots. Oftentimes our new characters come from the same family/clan as the lost character, which allows some storylines to continue from a different perspective. You guys have made a different choice, which works for you.

To each his own.

 

[Janos Antero]

Honestly, after putting so much time and effort into a PC, ANY PC I play, I wouldn't want to start back at 1st again. Starting at 1 level lower than the lowest in the party, or at the lowest in the party feels like punishment enough for a death (even if it was a death I was smart about and just bad luck).

Death is a penalty to a PC, and it takes good sportsmanship to accept that loss with good graces, but a total wipeout of everything you've done so far? Meaning you have to reearn ALL those lower levels? Ugh, no way! Campaign isn't for me in that case.

That rule transcends any edition though, as well as game that has a staged progression that will impact life. I don't want to be that much behind the party, and not able to contribute in most ways for several sessions, I have better things to spend my time on honestly.

I could take it with good graces if the party itself was maybe 4th or lower, but even at 5th, no thank you, not for me, I had fun with this guy but will be moving to a new campaign now. I put alot into every character I make, and that goes up exponentially as I level up, I don't even like restarting campaigns without a good end feeling to it.

It's a big playstyle difference I admit, but those are my 2 coppers.

 

[Emongnome]

To get somewhat back to the original topic: A DM I knew (though I never played in his games) used a rule (I guess was his idea) of a "ghost character" when a character died. The new character was the same level as the rest of the party, but had zero experience. For instance, a 5th level character dies, you create another 5th level character, with zero experience. To advance to 6th, you need to get 15,000 exp, and will invariably fall behind a little bit, but you'll never be that far behind. Just a thought.

 

[Arnwyn]

IMC I'm wanting to return to the original way of doing things and am wondering if anyone else has a comment on this, or possibly another way of doing things. Does anyone else make PCs start at level 1 in the advent of character death? Is it detrimental to the campaign for too long? Often times such lower level PCs feel useless, and I wouldn't want that to carry on for too long...

Actually, our group starts new characters at level 1. Really. It has worked fine, and the lower level characters do catch up. If the character plays smart (*very* smart), he/she should have no problem surviving. IME, and IMC of course. I hardly expect it to work with the majority of groups.

Now, the "but" - new characters start at level 1 until the lowest level member is 6th - then new characters enter at half the level of the lowest level party member (thus, once the lowest level character is 6th and somebody dies, the new character will come in at 3rd - this gives the character a chance to be useful, and prep him/her for the group's passing of the 7th level lethality stage).

Anyways, just what our group does, and probably not the best thing to emulate.