Character Sheet updated and released
Tumulorum Fossor
First Post
I'm just trying to get back into Dnd after a long absence. Got 4ed books. So I'm surfing for character sheet creators, when I came across yours, Pfhoenix. So far, I'm liking where it's going the best after just a cursory playing around with it. But I'm not so sure I like how racial modifiers are not so clearly indicated. I mean, I know that your program automatically calculates on the ramifications of racial modifiers on the ability scores, as if the scores themselves were altered, but then don't you end up with a character sheet whose ability scores indicated aren't REALLY the ability score of that character (unless I'm missing something). Wouldn't it just make sense to have the user input their ability score under HUMAN, then tinker away (ie have the race modifier affect the calculation under the abilty SCORE directly)? Or even have a separate column for BASE SCORE and FINAL SCORE under ability? Again, just coming back into Dnd, haven't even read 4ed rules, so I could be WAAAAY off base here, but I just want to know if I'm missing something. Thanks. Neat program. I was trying to find an OfficeOrg version of Rich's infamous excel character sheet spreadsheet. This is more elegant.
Pfhoenix
First Post
The reasons why abilities are presented the way they are are two fold :
1) I wanted the layout to mirror as closely as possible the official character sheet layout
2) I wanted to maintain the absolute integrity of user inputted values
The first means I won't add another ability score column. The second means I won't modify a value you enter unless absolutely necessary. To get around this, I change the color of the ability score text to indicate a racial ability modifier. In a future update, there will be an option to set the ability scores via the optional point system, and for races that provide optional bonuses (such as Humans that get to add their bonus to whichever ability they choose), a dialog box will popup to set that.
1) I wanted the layout to mirror as closely as possible the official character sheet layout
2) I wanted to maintain the absolute integrity of user inputted values
The first means I won't add another ability score column. The second means I won't modify a value you enter unless absolutely necessary. To get around this, I change the color of the ability score text to indicate a racial ability modifier. In a future update, there will be an option to set the ability scores via the optional point system, and for races that provide optional bonuses (such as Humans that get to add their bonus to whichever ability they choose), a dialog box will popup to set that.
Tumulorum Fossor
First Post
Thanks for the response (and the program). Your reply makes perfect sense, and the goal of future inclusion of optional point systems sounds good. Playing with the character sheet some more, the only thing that we noticed that your system doesn't do as well if not better is the equipment cross-referencing available in Ronald's v21 Character Sheet (which is done in Excel and incompatible with OpenOffice... ugh). As it was described to me, with that Character sheet, there is a pulldown of routine items that are placed in the Magic Items section (though they are not, in fact, magic items in the pulldown menu), but the appropriate attack/damage numbers are autocalced. Is this on the agenda for your program, or is the appreciable info needed for all the items to be input into a pulldown friendly format too big a hassle? Also, consider, instead of color, using shadowed fonts, or something more color-blind/ black & white printer friendly to indicated racially-boosted attributes. I'm enjoying the program. Thanks for doing it.
Pfhoenix
First Post
Right, equipment isn't in yet, but is planned (every time I sit down to quantify equipment properties and how best to represent them, something seems to come up). As for "is the appreciable info needed for all the items to be input into a pulldown friendly format too big", I'd like to direct you to every power, feat, and ritual being available already - "too big hassle" doesn't apply here. =)
As for not using color, I'm contemplating changing how I handle ability scores at this point, since this seems to be the most common question (i.e. the score value not reflecting the racial modifiers). The new method would do away with the colored text and would pop up a dialog box that would allow you to freeform input, randomize values if desired, allow the use of the point selection system, etc.
As for not using color, I'm contemplating changing how I handle ability scores at this point, since this seems to be the most common question (i.e. the score value not reflecting the racial modifiers). The new method would do away with the colored text and would pop up a dialog box that would allow you to freeform input, randomize values if desired, allow the use of the point selection system, etc.
Spirynth
First Post
Hey Pfhoenix - I really like the idea of what your doing here! Words of encouragement! Words of encouragement!
I noticed an issue with choosing Class - Say you start and choose a class like Cleric, Save the character, then re-load that character. Say you think about changing class, so you choose Fighter. Cool, that works. SO you decide to change back to Cleric.
It looks like it doesn't clear out the old Clerical "Class Features" or "Encounter Powers" (that you get for the class) - but instead adds a second set.
Suppose you then switch back to Fighter - some of the Cleric Features and Encounter powers are still there, in addition to the Fighter Features and Fighter Encounter Powers.
And if you then switch to a different class (say Ranger) - it looks like its still hanging onto that one extra set of Cleric Features and Encounter powers.
Its of course easy enough to just click the little "-" and remove the excess - but I thought you might wanna know.
RE: the Racial ability score Mods - [and this is MY opinion only] - I also found that to be not to my liking. I understand your thinking about not changing the user's input and trying to stay as close to the "official" char sheet as possible... But I just can't help but be thrown when I look and DON'T see the real total for my Eladrin' Dex and Int scores. Even though the ability mod is for the modified stat, and it looks like all calculated places use the modified stat... dangit, I'd really prefer seeing the final, modified total stat there. I'd be fine with having the extra "Base Values" column.
Like I said - just my opinion. Feel free to stick to your original plan!
I noticed an issue with choosing Class - Say you start and choose a class like Cleric, Save the character, then re-load that character. Say you think about changing class, so you choose Fighter. Cool, that works. SO you decide to change back to Cleric.
It looks like it doesn't clear out the old Clerical "Class Features" or "Encounter Powers" (that you get for the class) - but instead adds a second set.
Suppose you then switch back to Fighter - some of the Cleric Features and Encounter powers are still there, in addition to the Fighter Features and Fighter Encounter Powers.
And if you then switch to a different class (say Ranger) - it looks like its still hanging onto that one extra set of Cleric Features and Encounter powers.
Its of course easy enough to just click the little "-" and remove the excess - but I thought you might wanna know.
RE: the Racial ability score Mods - [and this is MY opinion only] - I also found that to be not to my liking. I understand your thinking about not changing the user's input and trying to stay as close to the "official" char sheet as possible... But I just can't help but be thrown when I look and DON'T see the real total for my Eladrin' Dex and Int scores. Even though the ability mod is for the modified stat, and it looks like all calculated places use the modified stat... dangit, I'd really prefer seeing the final, modified total stat there. I'd be fine with having the extra "Base Values" column.
Like I said - just my opinion. Feel free to stick to your original plan!
I just added Toughness to my fighter and have noted it does not add the 5 HP to my total. I cannot edit HP either, so there appears to be no way to gain the benefit for this feat. If this is incorrect and I can do something different to make it work, just let me know.
I like this sheet, btw. Seems very straight forward. I have tried a number of the new sheets, and yours seems to be graphically the most pleasing. As you add more features it will get even better, I'm sure.
I like this sheet, btw. Seems very straight forward. I have tried a number of the new sheets, and yours seems to be graphically the most pleasing. As you add more features it will get even better, I'm sure.
Pfhoenix
First Post
No, Toughness is one of the feats that still need to be implemented for automatic handling. Thanks for your feedback just the same.
Pfhoenix
First Post
A quick update - I've reworked ability stat handling a touch. Contrary to what I wrote earlier, I've added a new stat column to show the racial bonus, as well as removed the colorizing of text. I also added support for using the point system for starting ability scores, as well as implemented Toughness and Jack-of-all-Trades feats (fixed that class feature on loading bug as well).
The next version isn't slated for release in the next week or two, but just know that it's being worked on.
The next version isn't slated for release in the next week or two, but just know that it's being worked on.
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