Christian Persecution vs Persecuted Christians

[Dannyalcatraz]

I once saw a Muslim-made movie about Mohammed, and they had an interesting way of handling the "depictions of the prophet" issue: the film was presented mostly from his POV, and instead of a voice-.actor, they used a narrator, as in "then he told them..." type fashion.

The idolatry/images of the prophet issue is an interesting one, seeing as how there actually is a fair amount of Muslim-made representative art depicting not only people & animals, but also the prophet himself, dating back several hundred years.

 

[Umbran]

The idolatry/images of the prophet issue is an interesting one, seeing as how there actually is a fair amount of Muslim-made representative art depicting not only people & animals, but also the prophet himself, dating back several hundred years.

Well, as has been noted several times, it isn't like all 1.5 billion Muslims in the world agree on interpretations of what counts as idolatry.

I really only meant that the fact that this is an issue for a significant portion of the community should tend to limit the success of visual media, making apples-to-apples comparison difficult.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Agreed, completely. Just wanted to point out the elephant.

 

[Kramodlog]

Well, as has been noted several times, it isn't like all 1.5 billion Muslims in the world agree on interpretations of what counts as idolatry.

I really only meant that the fact that this is an issue for a significant portion of the community should tend to limit the success of visual media, making apples-to-apples comparison difficult.

To be a Christian film you do not need Jesus to be in it, so I'm not sure why Mohammed needs to be in a film for it to be a Muslim film.

And I think this is supposed to be a indicator of influence in the US, so it doesn't need to be about the 1.5 billion Muslims on Earth.

That being said, if Muslims have made pact with Reptilians, who obviously are evolved dinosaurs from a parallel universe that got dimension hoping tech from aliens, one could safely speculate that there are Muslims in space too. Those Muslim space colonies increase their numbers and the effectiveness of their invasion and conversion of the civilized Western world. All to fulfill the Elders of Zion, world bankers and communists' plan. But liberals will try to shut me up with their islamophobe comments. Don't listen to them! Pay for coffee with credit cards so the government can't track you with its printed bills!

 

[Umbran]

To be a Christian film you do not need Jesus to be in it, so I'm not sure why Mohammed needs to be in a film for it to be a Muslim film.

The issue of idolatry is not, as I understand it, so simple as, "you cannot have images of Mohammed". That's an oversimplification bordering on trivialization.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

The issue of idolatry is not, as I understand it, so simple as, "you cannot have images of Mohammed". That's an oversimplification bordering on trivialization.

Yep. Technically, Islam is an "Aniconistic" faith.

In Islam is a general proscription in Islam against the creation of images of sentient beings: depiction of all humans and non-human animals is discouraged in the hadith and by the long tradition of Islamic authorities, especially Sunni ones. This is why most Islamic art consists of geometric patterns, calligraphy and the barely representational foliage patterns of the arabesque.

(The photographic and filmed images of today has led to some religious authorities stating, for example, that all television is un-Islamic, but this is not a widely held position.)

 

[Sadras]

There are differences in interpretation and application. This is why saying Islam has a problem with apostacy is a broad generalization.

In your opinion, if I had called the Republicans racist, would that also be considered a broad generalisation?
Also please tell me which part of Islam does not have a problem with apostacy, so it will be more evident to me that I'm making a broad generalisation.

Quote me defending it.

Well I want the Islam world to own up to its persecutions and historical atrocities. You keep hassling me about it, saying I shouldn't generalise, when clearly you don't hold yourself up to that measure (refer above - racist Republicans). I'm saying I'm treating Islam in the same manner Christianity's History was held up to the spotlight and judged. So either you have an issue with me or you have an issue with what I say. If it is not with me, and you are being genuine in this debate, IMO that means you are defending Islam.

I like how you add "bad Christian Republicans" to this as if I said such words.

I think your position on where you stand in this thread makes it pretty clear.

But if we take your logic about movies to be an indicator of influence of a religious group, shouldn't you compare Christian films and their box office made in the US to the Muslims ones?

Well this has been answered by others.

EDIT: Just to touch on the building of Park51. I have no problem with it. But our initial discussion re this issue was with actual Christian influence in the US, with regards to perceived Islamic influence. Can you please enlighten me as to this actual Christian influence that you know about? Because I am not seeing a public that is overtly Christian, I see a current president that has mocked the bible in public and a rather obvious move towards secularism.

 

[Kramodlog]

The issue of idolatry is not, as I understand it, so simple as, "you cannot have images of Mohammed". That's an oversimplification bordering on trivialization.

According to the director of Muhammad: the Messenger of God, it is that simple and trivial.

Majidi stated, "The face of the Prophet is not shown in the film."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad:_The_Messenger_of_God_(film) All done with the blessing of the Iranian theocracy no less.

In the context of the US, making Muslim centric films should face less institutional red tape. After Kirk Cameron's Saving Christmas, you could have Omar Yusef's Saving Ramadan! This, according to [MENTION=6688277]Sadras[/MENTION], would be a sign of Muslim influence in the US.

 

[Sadras]

This, according to [MENTION=6688277]Sadras[/MENTION], would be a sign of Muslim influence in the US.

You counter that it is not a sign of influence? Okay to each their own.

 

[Kramodlog]

In your opinion,

More as a matter of fact. To say that all Muslim countries act like Saudi Arabia is just proof of ignorance, just like saying all Muslims approve of the death the penalty for apostacy.

Well I want the Islam world to own up to its persecutions and historical atrocities.

A nice personal crusade.

You keep hassling me about it

When it is Muslims being critiqued it is good, when it is you that is bad?

when clearly you don't hold yourself up to that measure (refer above - racist Republicans).

That is more because you didn't really pay attention to what I actually said about Republicans. It is like you saying it means that I hate Christians when I say islamophobes exagerate the influence of Muslims in Western countries. Gross misrepresentation or gross misunderstanding.

I'm saying I'm treating Islam in the same manner Christianity's History was held up to the spotlight and judged. So either you have an issue with me or you have an issue with what I say. If it is not with me, and you are being genuine in this debate, IMO that means you are defending Islam.

That is an interesting leap in logic right there. So, if I have an issue with what you say, it is not because I find what you say to be innaccurate and I like conversations to use accurate facts? It is because I defend Islam? So, if you say Iran killed a million Jews in 1999 because the Qoran demanded it to herald the new millenium, and I say that wasn't true, I'd be defending Islam, not pointing out a frabrication? Interesting logic indeed.

I think your position on where you stand in this thread makes it pretty clear.

That islamophobes exagerate the influence of Islam in Western countries? It is pretty clear. And it is pretty clear that you haven't given any solid arguments to refute that.

Well this has been answered by others.

Well, no.