D&D 5E Cloak of Elvenkind - or how Hiding and Stealthing combines

[Bardbarian]

In my games, I run the cloak as it reads and I generally have no troubles even though it basically means that the user is nearly impossible to detect when stealthed. Stealth isnt that game breaking because it requires other assumptions cover and obscurement to function. I assume that a creature uses all its senses when making a normal perception check so a normal creature trying to detect a claoked wearer only by sound would have disadvantage for not using all its senses. On the other hand, a blind creature or one that operated on echolocation like a bat would not be penalized and would circumvent the cloak's powers. The bat although not using its sight is using souns as it's primary source of detection and is unhampered. On the other hand, if the player was wearing boots of the elven kind, the bat would have disadvantage. Many creatures can get past the cloak just fine, many animals have other senses like wolves and bears. Tremor sense works just fine. While stealth seems strong, it is in many ways the assumptive state for some classes like rogue and they are designed with the ability to achieve this state reliably. There is a reason almost no "killer" builds do more than splash rogue, stealth and the related bonuses just aren not an outlier.

 

[CapnZapp]

I'm pretty sure he's saying that the way he plays it means either you get advantage on stealth or the enemy gets disadvantage to see you. Never both.

I understand that.

I just don't see how I can achieve that desirable state without completely gimping "enemies gain disadvantage on sight-based perception" which I belive is his solution.

I want both the cloak's effects to have an impact.

Just not both at the same time.

Sent from my C6603 using EN World mobile app

 

[DEFCON 1]

Much like the skulker feat I believe he can hide in just dim light, patchy fog, or moderate foliage. Are you arguing everywhere is bright light, and patchy fog never impacts a town wall?

I don't know. Do consider my phrase "in short supply" and your word "never" mean the same thing? If you do, then I can understand your confusion.

(Oh, and for me personally at my table... I don't treat the lightfoot halfling, wood elf, and skulker as all having the exact same "lightly obscured" possibilities for hiding. Halflings can only hide behind large characters (and not foliage or dim light), wood elves only in foliage (and not dim light or behind large creatures) and skulkers only in dim light (and not foliage or large creatures.) Sure the argument could be made that it seems counter-intuitive to rule it that way (since it's all 'lightly obscuring' terrain), but narratively it makes sense to me how each of those three types of characters get only the light obscuring that they do.)

 

[Hriston]

I just don't see how I can achieve that desirable state without completely gimping "enemies gain disadvantage on sight-based perception" which I belive is his solution.

I want both the cloak's effects to have an impact.

I'm not gimping disadvantage on checks made to see the cloak-wearer. When it applies it applies. One type of situation where it applies is when the wearer has an ability that allows them to hide without even being lightly obscured, i.e. the lightfoot halfling and 10th level ranger abilities, with which the cloak has synergy. In the case of such a character hiding under its special conditions and outside of audible range of an observing creature, a check to see the character could be made to foil the hide attempt and would certainly be made at disadvantage because of the cloak.

 

[Yunru]

Depending on the guard it might not even do much for my characters, because most of my cities are peaceful enough that the guards are going to be making checks at disadvantage anyway

 

[Cognomen's Cassowary]

(I found earlier threads talking about the cloak, but none specifically discussing this)

These are the two benefits of the cloak of elvenkind (with the hood up, while attuned):
* "Wisdom (Perception) checks made to see you have disadvantage"
* "you have advantage on Dexterity (Stealth) checks made to hide"

Now how do you run this in practice, in your games?

When a character attempts to hide from, say, a patrolling guard, I would normally ask for a Stealth check and pit that against the guard's passive perception.

First question - is this how you'd do it?

Assuming a yes, doesn't this mean the cloak gives you a double benefit? Hiding means making a Stealth (Dex) check vs the passive perception of the enemy. The character gain advantage on her active roll and also the DC is lowered by -5 (because that's how disadvantage on passive checks work).

End result, the two benefits stack - giving a "double benefit".

Am I using the stealth rules correctly?

Is this how you would run the encounter? Again assuming a yes - is something this powerful appropriate for an Uncommon item?

As I read the rules, there is no way for the benefits to stack at the moment when the cloaked character hides. Why not?

"You can’t hide from a creature that can see you [clearly] . . . " (PHB 177, with errata clarification). There are only a few situations that prevent a creature from seeing you clearly. If the creature is blinded or looking the other direction, or if you are heavily obscured or completely behind cover, the creature automatically fails any wisdom (perception) check to see you. If you are only lightly obscured, the creature already has disadvantage, so the disadvantage from the cloak has no effect.

That's about it, as far as can find, for situations in which a character can hide. However, once the character is hidden, the situation can change.

For example, the creature might grab a torch and light up the obscured area to check for enemies. In this case, the DM would roll a perception check at disadvantage if the hidden character were cloaked, and that roll would be contested by the stealth check to hide, already made with advantage.

Alternatively, the hidden character might try to move while remaining hidden, say by slinking out from behind cover and through the castle gate. Normally, the enemy would go from automatically failing the perception check to a normal perception check (or passive perception) as soon as the hidden character stepped out. However, if the hidden character were cloaked, the enemy would have disadvantage (and -5 to passive), contested by the earlier stealth check with disadvantage to hide. [This should probably be ruled differently when the enemy is particularly alert, as in combat. The DM might also say that the cloaked character in this case is coming out of hiding and needs to make a new stealth check (not to hide) without advantage. That's a matter of interpretation.]

In both of these cases, the player enjoys something of a double effect from the cloak.

The disadvantage to perception can also have an effect in situations where the cloaked character is not trying to hide, as the rules use the term. If, for example, the cloaked character tries to sneak up on someone who is not aware of his or her presence, it could be a stealth check but not a stealth check to hide, so only the first cloak effect would trigger. A particularly generous DM might rule that the character is effectively lightly obscured at all times, so could hide anywhere. I personally wouldn't, though.

That is how I understand the item's function.

 

[Athinar]

One thing everyone forgets about the cloak - "magical camouflage"

(aka "Ghillie Suits" are camouflage clothing) - and you can move from hiding if you move half you speed and stay hidden with the cloak

but Keen Senses can prevent the disadvantage,
add the boots - there goes the hearing

Keen smell and tremorsense is not affected by the cloak or boots

While you wear this cloak with its hood up, Wisdom
(Perception) checks made to see you have disadvantage.
and you have advantage on Dexterity (Stealth) checks
made to hide, as the cloak's color shifts to camouflage
you.