combining skills into Stealth a good thing?

[Xath]

Stuff

To be fair, I take my third suggestion. I like it when players have and use skills, and I don't think it's a game maker/breaker. After all, bad guys have skills too.

 

[Xath]

I took Spellcraft and Knowledge: Arcana and combined them into Arcana. I have always felt those skills were somewhat interchangable anyway and in all my experiences, they were generally used interchangably.

I've never run into this. In our games, Knowledge Arcana is used to learn about non-natural monsters, and to know general things about magic itself. Spellcraft is for figuring out what that evil NPC over there is casting at you.

That being said, I've never really taken spellcraft because it seems kind of silly to only know what someone is casting at you right before they cast it.

Your idea may have merit.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

To be fair, I take my third suggestion. I like it when players have and use skills, and I don't think it's a game maker/breaker. After all, bad guys have skills too.

Oh, absolutely. I'm in the camp of wanting to combine MS and Hide, but not Spot and Listen. Not to help the PC rogue, but rather because as the rules stand now, it's extremely difficult to have an NPC sneak up on a party. between 4-6 PC's, there's usually at least 2 very good at listen and 2 very good at spotting (possibly the same 2 PC's).

Sure, you could use Invisibility and Silence, but such a combo wouldn't work too great for a pure caster. Could be nice for a rogue w/ UMD, but then it's either one of two scenarios: a) PC's have absolutely no clues or knowledge beforehand of this possibility, and then it will come across as an unfair DM screw-over of the players, which I like to avoid, whether it's real or imagined. b) Players have the opportunity to use Gather Info. or something to learn about what's waiting for them in X dungeon, or that there's a bounty on them, etc... They then probably prepare counters to the aforementioned spells, negating their usefulness anyway.

So, it all comes down to the skill checks. I'd rather make MS and Hide the same skill and give the NPC a similar skill bonus to the best PC's, rather than, say, give the NPC a much higher bonus so as to make the PC's skill investments practically worthless.

 

[Xath]

But if you only combine Move Silently and Hide, then you're giving your PCs twice as much of a chance to detect the NPCs. Then, they only have to make either a spot or listen check to beat your one skill. And if you roll crappily, your npc is screwed.

Because the 4 skills are so integrally connected in purpose, I couldn't see combining one set without the other.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

But in most situations the sneaker has to make both MS and hide rolls anyway. He doesn't get a special bonus for beating the PC's twice (although, that might make for an interesting house rule!), but by having to make an opposed roll twice, he's significantly increased his chance of failure, as opposed to just one roll. Sure the roll may be unlucky, but as it is now, he has TWO chances to be unlucky.

 

[vulcan_idic]

I like all of these suggestions because it helps me, as a DM, streamline the rules/rolling side of playing and focus more on what's happening in the game and the roleplaying/collective storytelling aspects of it. Just my two copper bits.

 

[JiffyPopTart]

That being said, I've never really taken spellcraft because it seems kind of silly to only know what someone is casting at you right before they cast it.

Spellcraft also lets you ID potions for free. That alone is worth the skill points.

DS

 

[JiffyPopTart]

I took Spellcraft and Knowledge: Arcana and combined them into Arcana. I have always felt those skills were somewhat interchangable anyway and in all my experiences, they were generally used interchangably.

I have always viewed the KNOW:Arcana and KNOW:Religion as the book learning, and Spellcraft as the field experience.

I can see a difference between the two (a wizard knows SC and KA but not KR, whereas a cleric knows SC and KR, but not KA) but I think they ARE close enough that simplifying them wouldn't cause a ruckus in my game.

DS

 

[Nifft]

Here's an untested version that I came up with:

Stealth vs. Sense (each a single skill).

You get a +4 on your Sense check for each sense you can bring to bear. You need at least one sense available to make a check at all -- i.e. no Sense check at all vs. a flying, invisible, silenced opponent (like an incorporeal critter in a wall).

However, if your opponent is not supernaturally silent, you get a Sense check.

If your opponent ALSO is not invisible (has only partial cover or has only concealment), you get a +4.

If you have the Scent special quality, you gain a +4.

If you have Blindsense or Tremorsense or Air Mastery or Earth Mastery or Water Mastery or the like, and it applies to your opponent, you gain a +4 (each).


The rules for distance become a lot more important.

- - - - -

General note: there have been a lot more threads in here over the years asking about the implications of giving more skill points than there have been threads asking about reducing skill points. It seems like more skill points tend to make games better (up to a point, of course). In fact, despite all the low-power / low-point-buy / low-magic / low-wealth / low-advancement proposals, I don't think I've ever heard someone wanting to run a low-skill-point game.

So, I'd say it's more than just okay to blend (and thus "boost") skills. It may be excellent.

Other skill blend ideas:
- Forgery, Sleight-of-Hand, Disguise: Larceny (ability?)
- Open Locks, Disable Device: Disable Device (Dex)
- Climb, Jump, Swim: Athletics (Str)

Cheers, -- N

 

[Eltharon]

Spycraft, from what I can see from me quick glance at it, combined these skills:
Escape artist+Climb+Swim+Several ability checks (like smashing doors, which is now a skill)
Disable Device+Open locks (Non electronic)
Tumble+Balance+Jump
Diplomacy+Preform
Disguise+Forgery
Hide+Move Silently
Spot+Listen

A few others. And the classes get more skill points...