D&D (2024) Comeliness and Representation in Recent DnD Art

[Crimson Longinus]

It was not. It was used to describe the attitude that a being without a soul is somehow lesser.

Whether it is certainly depends on what having a soul entails? If you need to have a soul to have sentience then the statement makes perfect sense. I would say that a humble but quite sentient field mouse is in the moral sense "greater" than the server housing ChatGTP.

 

[Voadam]

Defining the difference between having a soul and not having a soul be solely whether raise dead magic works on you or not is extremely weird and not what most people think of when talking about souls.

1e had the soul/spirit difference for humans and non-elf demihuman souls versus the non-soul spirits of elves and humanoids. It was weird.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I play elfgames. The idea that I would be dismissive of my own hobbies is interesting to say the least.

As noted above, it's a term that tries to put things in perspective when discussing this hobby.

That just so happens to come up when you want to dismiss the perceived tone of the person with whom you're discussing? Elfgame implies that the hobby shouldn't be taken seriously. No one uses terms like that about other hobbies, and if they do it would be just as bad.

 

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

That just so happens to come up when you want to dismiss the perceived tone of the person with whom you're discussing? Elfgame implies that the hobby shouldn't be taken seriously. No one uses terms like that about other hobbies, and if they do it would be just as bad.

No. It’s used to dismiss arguments when people are either making a mountain out of a molehill or to explain how another play style is valid by putting things in perspective.

And there are definitely equivalents in other hobbies used for similarly valid reasons. Like when people say “it’s just a game” to kids or immature adults that get super upset over losing a game. Or when making fun of people complaining about diversity in video games by stating that no one is forcing them to play the game or choose a certain option.

 

[Azzy]

No. It’s used to dismiss arguments when people are either making a mountain out of a molehill or to explain how another play style is valid by putting things in perspective.

And there are definitely equivalents in other hobbies used for similarly valid reasons. Like when people say “it’s just a game” to kids or immature adults that get super upset over losing a game. Or when making fun of people complaining about diversity in video games by stating that no one is forcing them to play the game or choose a certain option.

Exactly. D&D is a game. It's not a way of life, it's not your identity, it's not going to save your soul, it's not a personality—it's a game and I really wish that people would treat it as such.

 

[Micah Sweet]

No. It’s used to dismiss arguments when people are either making a mountain out of a molehill or to explain how another play style is valid by putting things in perspective.

And there are definitely equivalents in other hobbies used for similarly valid reasons. Like when people say “it’s just a game” to kids or immature adults that get super upset over losing a game. Or when making fun of people complaining about diversity in video games by stating that no one is forcing them to play the game or choose a certain option.

So your argument is that I'm either being talked down to ("like a child or immature adult") or being made fun of through the use of that term directly to me, and that's ok?

 

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

So your argument is that I'm either being talked down to ("like a child or immature adult") or being made fun of through the use of that term directly to me, and that's ok?

I don’t know the circumstances that you feel “elfgames” has been offensive to you, so I can’t make a statement on your particular issue with the phrase. Unless you say which specific cases made you feel this way, I can only comment on how it and similar phrases are generally used and why I feel it’s valid.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I don’t know the circumstances that you feel “elfgames” has been offensive to you, so I can’t make a statement on your particular issue with the phrase. Unless you say which specific cases made you feel this way, I can only comment on how it and similar phrases are generally used and why I feel it’s valid.

Look: of course TTRPGs are a hobby, and there are more important things in life than our hobbies. But that doesn't mean that our hobbies aren't important, or that we can't have serious discussions about them. In my experience, the terms "elfgame" or "game where we pretend to be elves" are mostly used to shut down a lane of discussion by trying to convince people that it's not a big deal. The problem is that what you consider unimportant may very well differ from others. I see it as a cheap rhetorical move most of the time, designed as a tactic to demean one's opponents.

 

[Azzy]

Look: of course TTRPGs are a hobby, and there are more important things in life than our hobbies. But that doesn't mean that our hobbies aren't important, or that we can't have serious discussions about them.

There's serious discussion and then there's unhealthy engagement. If the hobby is causing you (general you) such great amounts of frustration, anxiety, and anger—then maybe you should disengage from it (either temporarily or permanently).

In my experience, the terms "elfgame" or "game where we pretend to be elves" are mostly used to shut down a lane of discussion by trying to convince people that it's not a big deal.

Well, 99 times out of 100 it IS no big deal. Like seriously.

The problem is that what you consider unimportant may very well differ from others. I see it as a cheap rhetorical move most of the time, designed as a tactic to demean one's opponents.

How you see it is how you see it. However, it's meant as a call to take a step back and gather some perspective—because it's just a damned game.

 

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

Look: of course TTRPGs are a hobby, and there are more important things in life than our hobbies. But that doesn't mean that our hobbies aren't important, or that we can't have serious discussions about them. In my experience, the terms "elfgame" or "game where we pretend to be elves" are mostly used to shut down a lane of discussion by trying to convince people that it's not a big deal. The problem is that what you consider unimportant may very well differ from others. I see it as a cheap rhetorical move most of the time, designed as a tactic to demean one's opponents.

“Elfgame,” in my experience, is not used to shut down serious discussions of TTRPGs. From what I’ve seen, it’s very much the opposite, shutting down people over-reacting about minor lore/canon changes, accusing WotC of hating older gamers for nonsensical reasons, and stuff like that. You know, very minor and non-serious issues (if they're even issues at all). Or, as used earlier in this thread, it was used to explain why personal taste doesn't always need rational/logical justifications behind them. I've occasionally seen it be used by D&D youtubers as a bit of self-deprecating humor, but that's absolutely fine (I often laugh at these jokes) and not the usual usage.

It isn't used to "demean," but to put things in perspective to people overreacting. Feeling personally attacked/morally affronted because of tiny lore changes to a 50-year-old game is ridiculous, but is all too present on this site and others. "Oh no, they changed our Frankenstein rip-off into a girl!" "Oh no, they made a joke character about an older mechanic" "Oh no, they're ruining the hobby by catering/pandering to X group" and similar statements are validly countered by "It's just an elfgame, you don't need to take things so personally and make a mountain out of a molehill."