D&D 5E Confessions of a guilty conscience DM

[redrick]

You're a GM. It's your job to create a world of risk and danger for your PC's. Sometimes, to support the constant illusion of risk, you have to enforce the reality of risk. Sometimes, you just have to do bad things to Player Characters. But you're a nice GM, and afterwards, you just feel awful. Especially if your player really, really liked his PC. I'm worrying less about running a good game, and more about getting a good night's sleep after a TPK.

So, what are the things that happened in your game world, (because you made them happen, you cowardly GM hiding behind the autonomy of your made-up world and its made-up NPCs!), that had you tossing and turning the whole night?

Here's mine from last night, from X2: Castle Amber.

[sblock]The characters sat down to a ghostly feast. Initially, they were expecting the 24 ghostly figures in the room to pose some sort of physical threat, but when they determined that the ghosts were completely uninterested in them, they hoped that maybe some piece of the castle's mystery would be revealed to them during dinner, so they took their seats at places bearing their name tags.

After a moment, some food was brought out. Some characters declined to eat, some characters only tried some of the food. Some saves throws were made. Nothing happened. New food was brought out. Some characters tried it. The GM rolled some dice. Each character permanently lost 2 points from one stat and gained two points in another stat. One character lost points from a prime stat and gained points in a non-essential stat. Character grew enraged and tried to go on a murderous rampage.

Another character got very drunk.

No other mysteries were revealed. The ghosts all went home.
[/sblock]

I ran this encounter pretty much straight out of the adventure, but, I couldn't help but go to bed feeling like I'd done this player dirty. He puts so much good-natured time and effort into crafting his characters. I respect that. I couldn't be bothered if I were a player, but, to each his own.

Please share your stories of times you actually felt bad for what happened to your players.

 

[Astrosicebear]

This is a problem with conversion. 5E handles stats differently, and those stat decreases can REALLY hurt... over MANY levels. If they wanted oldskool they got it.

Either retcon it by making them temporary (they sleep it off) or by giving them access in a session or two to a restoration magic that can fix things.

 

[redrick]

This is a problem with conversion. 5E handles stats differently, and those stat decreases can REALLY hurt... over MANY levels. If they wanted oldskool they got it.

Either retcon it by making them temporary (they sleep it off) or by giving them access in a session or two to a restoration magic that can fix things.

Well, to be fair, we were upfront when we started this module that it's got that, to quote Necromancer's new book line, "1e feel." And, of course, that 1e feel is that bad things happen. This adventure, and many others of its flavor, are full of save-or-die effects triggered possibly without warning. So, while the specific effects might be a little bit more dramatic than because of 5e mechanics (I'd have to dust off my copy of Moldvay to compare), the general effect is still the same as intended: permanent changes to player characters. And, yes, by the same token, there are other magics out there also able to affect permanent changes to characters, and hopefully undo the damages done already. An NPC has suggested this to the PC already, though she was personally unable to help him.

But hey, I'm not here to defend my generally short-sighted actions as a GM. I'm sure we'll find a way to keep making the game fun for everybody, and, if we don't, our group will go down in flames and we'll never speak to each other again. I'm here looking for solace in numbers from other GMs who, for better or for worse, screwed over a player character, didn't retcon it, didn't put a wand of wishing in the next room and then went home and felt bad about it all.

 

[ExploderWizard]

Wow. You made it sound like you railroaded that poor player straight to the bottom of the 9 hells. So the end result was a somewhat less optimized character that was otherwise OK stemming from actions voluntarily taken by the player?

Oh. You rat bastard you. (sarcasm)

Sleep well friend, your Dming here wasn't evil enough to lose any sleep over.

 

[Astrosicebear]

Wow. You made it sound like you railroaded that poor player straight to the bottom of the 9 hells. So the end result was a somewhat less optimized character that was otherwise OK stemming from actions voluntarily taken by the player?

Oh. You rat bastard you. (sarcasm)

Sleep well friend, your Dming here wasn't evil enough to lose any sleep over.

This.

As DM's we just hand the characters a red button that says DO NOT PUSH. The rest is up to them.

 

[mamol]

Once two PCs who always were kind of unfriendly towards each other became pretty aggressive. They pulled out their weapons, rolled initiative and one got killed by a critical hit. It's not like it was my fault as a DM, but I could have intervened somehow (at least by saying "stop that guys").

The last session I had this modified Cultist spellcaster (reskinned into a wizard) that cast a chromatic orb on the bard. In fact it didn't kill him, but it was only a few hit points to insta-kill. I felt a little bad for it anyways because this poor bard got targeted all night long (he did a lot of risky movements) and dropped like 3 times. Hopefully the player (or the character) learned his session and won't be so offensive again.

Besides killing PCs (which always gives me a bad feeling) I'm feeling more guilty when the players got great ideas and I somehow don't manage to include it into the adventure or break off creativity by saying "that won't work". That was the main problem I got for some time, now I tend more towards improvising (sometimes) what the characters expect might happen. For example they entered a tent and there was this big locked chest. The characters stopped and started talking about how it might be secured and started checking for magic and traps, so I threw something in just to keep the tension up they created. Killing off player's creativity is what let me sleep bad after a session.

 

[redrick]

Besides killing PCs (which always gives me a bad feeling) I'm feeling more guilty when the players got great ideas and I somehow don't manage to include it into the adventure or break off creativity by saying "that won't work". That was the main problem I got for some time, now I tend more towards improvising (sometimes) what the characters expect might happen. For example they entered a tent and there was this big locked chest. The characters stopped and started talking about how it might be secured and started checking for magic and traps, so I threw something in just to keep the tension up they created. Killing off player's creativity is what let me sleep bad after a session.

Yes, amen to that. I definitely have regrets after every session where I let an opportunity to improvise something off of characters actions and expectations go by.

Wow. You made it sound like you railroaded that poor player straight to the bottom of the 9 hells. So the end result was a somewhat less optimized character that was otherwise OK stemming from actions voluntarily taken by the player?

Heheh, well, my original guilt was slightly exaggerated for tongue in cheek value, but, yes, you know, it did seem particularly OK when I typed it out. That's why we confess things after all!

On the other hand, the player was frustrated and did go on a bit of a rampage and I think part of what I feel guilty for is that I teleported an NPC away before he had the chance to kill her in an act of self-righteous world-changing fury. (She did in fact know the teleport spell.) Player reactions aside, it is totally justifiable in-character for a Fighter to become a little unhinged when he realizes that he just isn't as strong as he used to be.

 

[mamol]

Yes, amen to that. I definitely have regrets after every session where I let an opportunity to improvise something off of characters actions and expectations go by.

Since a few sessions I really focus on incorporating player's creativity. This approach gives the game a way more organic feeling. In my opinion creativity should not be only the DM's responsibility, but it is the DM's responsibility to tie all the creativity around the table together and creating a collective creative story.

 

[Shiroiken]

The only time I've ever felt bad was in an Legend of the Five Rings game. The PCs are samurai, and sometimes your station causes you to take some rather unpleasant actions because of circumstances (perpetrated by a rat-bastard GM - me).

Overall though, I never let what happens to PCs bother me (much). I've killed off beloved characters, put characters into VERY unpleasant situations, and generally run the players emotions though the wringer. As the DM, that's my job

 

[Paraxis]

I don't get bothered, but I also don't do certain things to PC's. I don't reduce ability scores, I don't drain levels, I don't destroy magic items, I don't take away class features (ie spell books), I don't screw with the numbers or abilities on the character sheets.

Now that doesn't mean I don't do bad things to them, but it is in the context of the story, they can lose status, wealth, contacts, loved ones. They get deceived and fall victim to evil plots and schemes. Heck I roll in the open and let goblins kill them and have no issues with coupe de grace attacks.

It is just as a min/max power gamer when I play, I know that screwing with my numbers pisses me off to no end and makes me want to leave the table, so I don't put my players through that.