Conversion: Fantasy Rules into Star Frontiers

[smootrk]

While in a nostalgic mood (initiated in part by recent events), I looked up my Star Frontiers material. After a while I cam across this site: www.starfrontiersman.com and I became even more excited about revisiting the universe of Star Frontiers. The site has most of the SF materials remastered into new pdf's (a great improvement over the common html conversions that are out there).

While going over the stuff, I thought about how much I liked the simple yet elegant XP system and character improvement system (btw SF is classless and level-less) where the sparsely given xp are used to 'buy' skill improvements, stat improvements, and other types of development.

One area that I found a little weak, is the skill breakdown. Mind you, not the system itself, which I think is fine, but the breakdown and list of skills which I find a little too light. More skills and more differentiation would be better. Anyhow, the Zebulon treatment of skills changed the resolution system to something very poor (IMO). A houserule set of redesigned skills is in order.

Well, while thinking on how I might redesign the skills I had a flash of something interesting. I wonder if anyone has tried to develop a fantasy rule subset for Star Frontiers. Basically porting spells, dragons, priests, etc. to the rules used in Star Frontiers. Now this is the reverse of most of the thinking that typically appears here on ENWorld, as most want to port these interesting settings into the D20 system.

So, hardest of all, the magic system. How would you design a magic spell system in SF? Are there any developed rules like this already out there, hidden away in someone's files? Is there anyone out there with a similar endearment to Star Frontiers who might like to collaborate on that kind of endeavor?

 

[JohnSnow]

Since TSR owned Star Frontiers, I imagine there were conversion rules for going back and forth between it and AD&D somewhere. Probably in the Star Frontiers rulebooks.

Personally, I've never understood the fascination with classless and levelless systems. But hey, best of luck to you.

There are d20 stats for Star Frontiers material in d20 Future. Maybe that would help you get started.

 

[Mycanid]

While in a nostalgic mood (initiated in part by recent events), I looked up my Star Frontiers material. After a while I cam across this site: www.starfrontiersman.com and I became even more excited about revisiting the universe of Star Frontiers. The site has most of the SF materials remastered into new pdf's (a great improvement over the common html conversions that are out there).

While going over the stuff, I thought about how much I liked the simple yet elegant XP system and character improvement system (btw SF is classless and level-less) where the sparsely given xp are used to 'buy' skill improvements, stat improvements, and other types of development.

One area that I found a little weak, is the skill breakdown. Mind you, not the system itself, which I think is fine, but the breakdown and list of skills which I find a little too light. More skills and more differentiation would be better. Anyhow, the Zebulon treatment of skills changed the resolution system to something very poor (IMO). A houserule set of redesigned skills is in order.

Well, while thinking on how I might redesign the skills I had a flash of something interesting. I wonder if anyone has tried to develop a fantasy rule subset for Star Frontiers. Basically porting spells, dragons, priests, etc. to the rules used in Star Frontiers. Now this is the reverse of most of the thinking that typically appears here on ENWorld, as most want to port these interesting settings into the D20 system.

So, hardest of all, the magic system. How would you design a magic spell system in SF? Are there any developed rules like this already out there, hidden away in someone's files? Is there anyone out there with a similar endearment to Star Frontiers who might like to collaborate on that kind of endeavor?

Hmm ... a BIG SF fan here. (As you may remember! )

I must admit that I never thought about the possibility of importing a "magic system" into the setting.... Sounds like an interesting idea. I don't know that I would have the "rule-tweak-fu" that you might hope to get, though.

The primary initial issue that pops up for me is the question of character balance. If some pc's get magic (or psionics, or whatnot) how does this balance out with other pc's who do NOT have it? Perhaps magic, or psionics, etc. could be similar to a "prestige class" ... but this again begs the question of character balance. And if this option were chosen what about requirements? Certain number of stats or skills needed? For special abilities like this perhaps the introduction of a point system would be the best - I am kinda thinking of the 3.5 psionics system here.

Whaddaya think? If nothing else perhaps tearing the ideas apart might serve as a catalyst for your creativity?

 

[smootrk]

Well, my initial thoughts are that Arcane, Divine, or other types of magic are akin to Military, Biosocial, or Tech skill areas, thus a Character could choose Arcane PSA. Each spell/ability could then be learned as desired as a separate skill with the effects scalable with the standard 6 Skill Levels. Sets of these skills can be further grouped as prerequisites for 'advanced casting' akin to the spaceship skills needing certain prerequisites. For instance, some sort of mastery of a set of force magic skills/spells (like the equivalent of mage armor, magic missile, tenser's disk) could grant access to another series of more powerful spells (like equivalents of wall of force, or advanced bigsby hands spells).

Mind you, I think the overall design will be rather low-magic or low-fantasy in this manner, especially given the slow XP advancement of the game setting (but this is OK by me). Also, given the very flexible nature of the SF Rules, any character could still pick up any combination of these skill/spells.

Anyhow, fuel for thought. That is the direction that I am heading, but there is nothing on paper so far... just ideas.

Another aspect of a Fantasy Ruleset for SF is that the current Skills need a complete overhaul to fit fantasy. No Robotics there. I have not refined my thoughts here, but I know this needs to be designed concurrently with any Magic system. I will most likely emulate the breakdowns from another game system, but I want to keep very close to original SF rules systems as possible otherwise.

 

[smootrk]

The primary initial issue that pops up for me is the question of character balance. If some pc's get magic (or psionics, or whatnot) how does this balance out with other pc's who do NOT have it? Perhaps magic, or psionics, etc. could be similar to a "prestige class" ... but this again begs the question of character balance.

I don't see balance as too worrisome considering using a Skill system, and that this will be overall kinda low-fantasy in my mind, and that all characters could have some access.

For some other reference on an add-on such as this, check out the Gamma Dawn rules that were put out (fanbased) which add on old Gamma World style mutation effects to the basic SF system. For that add-on system, when a Mutated character option exists, the other SF characters (purestrain species) get bonus virtual XP to advance their abilities. If a magic system seems to over power characters, then a similar treatment might be considered.

 

[nerfherder]

So, hardest of all, the magic system. How would you design a magic spell system in SF? Are there any developed rules like this already out there, hidden away in someone's files?

Zebulon's Guide did a Mentalist PSA (or the equivalent). You could look at that for ideas.

 

[smootrk]

Also look in the back of the Alpha Dawn remastered PDF. There is a Mentalist PSA and rules for such there, with 3 main divisions as skills. Personally I would prefer a bit more modular approach to powers/spells/mutation myself, but it is worth reviewing those rules (and the Gamma Dawn supplement) for ideas on how to implement.

Nerfherder beat me to it.

 

[Mycanid]

Hmm ... perhaps a Gamma World based set of variations could work.... Good idea.

 

[smootrk]

Here is a basic Framework of mods I propose happen to enable a Fantasy Star Frontiers. Feel free to comment or critique, but be constructive. Don't bother to post if all you have is anti-star frontiers comments, or suggestions to use 'd20' or whatnot. Anyhow, it is something to build from. Do you see any areas that are lacking consideration?

Star Frontiers Fantasy Modification

Areas to Develop: all very rough ideas so far
• Skills/PSA redesign for low-tech and fantasy elements (this is a major area of revamping to make the fantasy setting work as I envision it so far).
• Advanced Skills (akin to spaceship skills) to emulate certain types of characters, for instance:
- Paladin type: Certain marital skills of appropriate level coupled with certain Divine spell skills of appropriate level = new array of available options.
- Bard type: Certain rogue skills coupled with certain spellskills = new array of available options like Bard Songs
- Advanced Casters: mastery of certain sets of spellskills = new array of available spellskill/powers
• Weaponry options should be broken up and expanded… no more simple ‘Archaic Weapon’ group as a catch all.
• Armor options need detailing including Armor Skill effects.
• Additional setting appropriate equipment
• Races (start with iconic basic fantasy Races – dwarf type, fey type, goblin types, then come up with a couple of unique ones for the setting).
• Monsters (easy area, choose a critter then restat for new mod, mixup & rename and change any preconceptions as desired to make unique to the setting)
• Magic Items
• Lists of Spellskills and their effects. (arcane, divine, psionic, other).
- When it comes to spellskills, I may combine some effects to simplify the stuff within a major grouping: Force Magic would include an array of effects (magic missile, mage armor, floating disk), Healing would include Stamina repair (HP) as well as other aspects of ‘curing’… etc. Hopefully I can come up about 3 to 5 features to go with each ‘spellskill’

PSA as I see things (and this is major, as I see this as an area that even standard SF needs to address and expand to allow for more character archetypes). Instead of three I see:
• Martial PSA (akin to Military) contains weapon skills (as standard SF rules), armor skills, maybe some tactical special skills such as Riding or Siegework.
• Rogue PSA (new) contains stealth, sleight of hand, traps, performance, and related skills
• Arcane PSA contains spellskills as well as skills associated with ‘wizardly types’ like magical item crafting, familiars, etc.
• Divine PSA contains spellskills as well as certain skills for dealing with otherworldly agents (as in demons, devils, etc.), ministering, etc.
• Psionic PSA (akin to existing Mentalist but redeveloped somewhat to match the framework for the Arcane/Divine sets of spellskills).
• Crafter PSA (akin to Tech) contains the various craft/professions. Of obviously less importance in Fantasy/lowtech settings, but has skills for special occasions that could be useful (such as magic item crafting).
• Nature PSA (aspects of Biosocial) contains natural healing, herbalism, nature lore, and hunting/survival.
• Other non-PSA associated skills include:
- Languages (per normal SF rules)
- Mutations (maybe called something different like aberrations, but effectively some stuff from Gamma Dawn)
- Career or guild info (akin to some treatments of Star Law, UPF Fleet personnel)
- Maybe some new template type effects or something akin to prestige classes taken from D20 games.

 

[Dagger Beornhelm]

Have you checked out Lejendary Adventure? It's a percentile, skill based fantasy RPG. If I were to try and convert SF to a fantasy game, it would probably come out a lot like LA.