Converting Al-Qadim creatures

[Shade]

That looks a decent start.

I think we'd better give more numerous Saluqi a better chance of Overrunning. Maybe instead of the standard +4 for a Large creature, it gets +1 per Saluqi with a maximum number equal to whoever many saluqi can surround the target (e.g. max +8 for a Small or Medium target, +12 for a Large target, +16 for a Huge target, +20 for a Gargantuan target and +28 for a Colossal target).

We could simplify it to +24 for a Colossal target or just cap it at a Huge target, since if we make the pack equivalent to a Large creature it can't overrun a Gargantuan+ target.

I like this, and agree to capping it at Huge.

 

[Number 6]

[O Brother Whereart Thou] I'm with you fellers. [/O Brother Whereart Thou]

 

[Cleon]

I like this, and agree to capping it at Huge.

Fine by me.

 

[freyar]

This is all good, with a couple of notes.

Overrunning usually requires a Str check. What Str should the pack have?

I'd rather not drop the damage from the saluqi's bites, which is in the original monster writeup.

We should probably mention that this doesn't provoke an AoO.

 

[Number 6]

Overrunning usually requires a Str check. What Str should the pack have?

We have the saluqi listed as having a Str of 14... the pack doesn't need a different rating since they get a bonus to the check for each saluqi participating in the Overrun.

 

[freyar]

Well, I guess I still prefer the stampede-based mechanic, but I can go with this with some clarifications. Here's what we have, I think.

Pack Overrun (Ex): A pack of four or more saluqi may use the overrun attack as a single. The pack overrun prevents a Medium-sized or smaller opponent from avoiding the overrun and does not provoke an attack of opportunity. In addition, if the pack successfully overruns its opponent the pack may immediately end its movement in the opponent's square and pin the opponent. Pinning in subsequent rounds still requires successful opposed grapple checks.

For the overrun attempt and subsequent grapple checks, treat the saluqi pack as a single Large creature with strength equal to that of the strongest saluqi in the pack. The saluqis' overrun and grapple checks also receive a bonus equal to the number of saluqi in the pack surrounding their target (that is, up to +8 for targets up to Medium, +12 for Large targets, and +16 for Huge targets). Furthermore, any adjacent saluqi can choose to deal damage with their bite attacks during the grapple.

 

[Number 6]

Well, I guess I still prefer the stampede-based mechanic...

Why not use both? Allow a pack of saluqi to stampede using the existing stampede rules as well as this pack overrun.

 

[freyar]

Well, they were both trying to emulate the same thing, so I don't think we really need both.

 

[Cleon]

Well, I guess I still prefer the stampede-based mechanic, but I can go with this with some clarifications. Here's what we have, I think.

Pack Overrun (Ex): A pack of four or more saluqi may use the overrun attack as a single. The pack overrun prevents a Medium-sized or smaller opponent from avoiding the overrun and does not provoke an attack of opportunity. In addition, if the pack successfully overruns its opponent the pack may immediately end its movement in the opponent's square and pin the opponent. Pinning in subsequent rounds still requires successful opposed grapple checks.

For the overrun attempt and subsequent grapple checks, treat the saluqi pack as a single Large creature with strength equal to that of the strongest saluqi in the pack. The saluqis' overrun and grapple checks also receive a bonus equal to the number of saluqi in the pack surrounding their target (that is, up to +8 for targets up to Medium, +12 for Large targets, and +16 for Huge targets). Furthermore, any adjacent saluqi can choose to deal damage with their bite attacks during the grapple.

Looks good, but do we need to mention its Overrun is capped at Huge? I guess we don't strictly speaking need to, since it says the pack's treated as a single Large creature, but I'd rather have it explicit.

 

[freyar]

Like this?

Pack Overrun (Ex): A pack of four or more saluqi may use the overrun attack. The pack overrun prevents a Medium-sized or smaller opponent from avoiding the overrun and does not provoke an attack of opportunity. In addition, if the pack successfully overruns its opponent the pack may immediately end its movement in the opponent's square and pin the opponent. Pinning in subsequent rounds still requires successful opposed grapple checks.

For the overrun attempt and subsequent grapple checks, treat the saluqi pack as a single Large creature with strength equal to that of the strongest saluqi in the pack (so that the pack cannot overrun creatures larger than Huge). The saluqis' overrun and grapple checks also receive a bonus equal to the number of saluqi in the pack surrounding their target (that is, up to +8 for targets up to Medium, +12 for Large targets, and +16 for Huge targets). Furthermore, any adjacent saluqi can choose to deal damage with their bite attacks during the grapple.