Cosmology Timeline?

[Voadam]

So in default Points of Light 4e we've got a few cosmology big events:

The Dawn War when the Gods overthrew the Primordials.

Tharizdun gets the Shard of Evil and creates the Abyss and Demon Lords.

Asmodeus kills his god and ascends.

What is the order of these events? Where is that information found?

Thanks.

 

[darkbard]

One of the beautiful aspects, in my opinion, of the out-of-the-box 4E setting is the very looseness of its canon elements, lending themselves to a variant "No Myth" aspect of play that allows the history of such events to emerge from play (rather than be predefined).

That said, the best repository of information I've encountered anywhere for the 4E cosmology and general history of the Nentir Vale as setting is the work done by Zeromaru X over at The Piazza. This link on the gods and primordials is probably most apt for your inquiry, but check out his other work, including the gazetteer, history, etc.

 

[Charlaquin]

So in default Points of Light 4e we've got a few cosmology big events:

The Dawn War when the Gods overthrew the Primordials.

Tharizdun gets the Shard of Evil and creates the Abyss and Demon Lords.

Asmodeus kills his god and ascends.

What is the order of these events? Where is that information found?

Thanks.

Points of Light intentionally leaves a lot up to inference and DM discretion, so really the answer is whatever works best for your story. However, the links darkbard posted are a fantastic resource that compiles the information that’s out there in various 4e sources, and with a minimal amount of speculation, puts them into one cohesive timeline.

One thing to keep in mind, is that IO was killed during the Dawn War by a demon, so Tharizdun finding the shard of evil would need to happen before the gods win the Dawn War.

 

[pemerton]

I would reiterate [MENTION=1282]darkbard[/MENTION]'s point: the 4e cosmology/mythology lends itself to being worked out in the course of play, by drawing on the key themes/motifs/NPCs without needing them to be fitted already into some predetermined history. It also helps the legendary/mythic feel for this to be uncertain or even apparently contradictory (just like real world myhts).

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

I have to second [MENTION=1282]darkbard[/MENTION] and [MENTION=42582]pemerton[/MENTION], its a very flexible cosmology. I THINK you can work out the sort of default historical sequence by very careful reading and deduction (though the official material is not all consistent). Still, its just lots of little bits of stories that only provide a very broken and partial view of what might have happened.

I certainly wouldn't worry about trying to be 'canonical'. Nothing in 4e assumes that.

 

[Tony Vargas]

So in default Points of Light 4e we've got a few cosmology big events:

The Dawn War when the Gods overthrew the Primordials.

Tharizdun gets the Shard of Evil and creates the Abyss and Demon Lords.

Asmodeus kills his god and ascends.

What is the order of these events? Where is that information found?

Thanks.

Asmodeus overthrew He Who Was during the Dawn War, using a fragment of the Shard of Evil, retrieved from the Abyss.

So:

The Abyss is created.
Asmodeus ascends.
The Gods defeat the Primordials, ending the Dawn War.

What's not clear to me is when the Abyss was created relative to the beginning of the Dawn War.

 

[pemerton]

The PCs should be changing the timeline in virtue of Journeying into Deep Myth (as per The Plane Above)!

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

The PCs should be changing the timeline in virtue of Journeying into Deep Myth (as per The Plane Above)!

This is a distinct possibility which is opened up by the structure of the WA Cosmology (something which would be largely pointless in the GW Cosmology, which is just basically perpetual balance).

 

[Zeromaru X]

Asmodeus overthrew He Who Was during the Dawn War, using a fragment of the Shard of Evil, retrieved from the Abyss.

So:

The Abyss is created.
Asmodeus ascends.
The Gods defeat the Primordials, ending the Dawn War.

What's not clear to me is when the Abyss was created relative to the beginning of the Dawn War.

This is speculation, as everyone pointed out there is no a set in stone canonical timeline, but by reading the sources:

The Abyss is created after the destruction of the Living Gate (as Tharizdun got the Shard of Pure Evil from the gate, according to the novels). The Living Gate was destroyed before the Dawn War, or in the earliest battles, as the primordials yet were not an unified force and there were no demons in their ranks yet.

Is also of note that many sources say that Tharizdun was in the gods' side during the Dawn War's early phase. Perhaps he even fought against Tabrach-Ti (the first primordial to be slain in the war) meaning Tharizdun was there way after the creation of the Abyss and the destruction of the Lattice of Heaven. Then he is discovered, sealed, and Asmodeus is tasked with safeguarding his prison.

Asmodeus ascending happens way long after this, as sources about the War of Betrayal say Tiamat helped Asmodeus with her abishai devils. Tiamat only can exist after Io's demise, and following the legends of Haramanthur's sacrifice, this happened in the "last years" of the Dawn War.

If you need all the info about the Dawn War, you can read the compiled info pdf I posted in the Piazza a while back ago. However, as everyone said, the info is vague, often contradictory and the timeline is not set in stone except for a few points. So, you can decide what is true and what don't in your version of the War.


Edit:
Link to the aforementioned pdf:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2mLfpEGKv-Sb29tN2tBYVBWZzA/view

 

[EzekielRaiden]

Very roughly, my understanding was:
- Universe is created
- Dawn War begins when Deities and Primordials can't agree on the fate of said universe
- Living Gate is destroyed, which produces (or permits the arrival of) the Shard of Evil
- (possibly a bit later) The Lattice of Heaven is destroyed, permanently ruining the gods' plan for their realm and severely hampering their war effort (along with numerous down-the-line consequences for mortal souls)
- Abyss is created when Tharizdun throws the Shard into the "bottom" of the Elemental Chaos
- First primordial is slain (implicitly: after multiple gods have already died)
- Tharizdun is imprisoned and Asmodeus is his jailer
- The Shard of Evil's influence brings Demons into the conflict
- Io is slain by Erek-Hus, who is then slain by the newly-born Bahamut and Tiamat, the only time they have ever worked perfectly in concert
- The gods finally band together and start helping each other, unlike the primordials, who never really present a united front
- Aberrations are created by (some of) the gods, essentially their "answer" to demons
- He-who-Was is slain by Asmodeus, who steals his divine spark; this transforms his realm into the Nine Hells (it used to be much nicer, apparently)
- Several more gods die, but their sacrifices usually result in significant victories
- (possibly earlier) Merger of various divine domains happens, somehow strengthening them against assault (but weakening them in other ways)
- The primordials, still fighting solo, eventually lose the war of attrition, leading to the gods' Pyrrhic victory