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Crash Course in 4th ed.

RedBeardJim

First Post
Jim, that is the exact sheet. Were you the one that posted about using it in a game?

No, but I remember when that thread was first posted because it was right around the time I was getting into 4e (after about 20 years away from D&D and RPGs in general), and I bookmarked that link. Sadly, that guy had a lot more success getting his kids interested than I have.
 

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Piratecat

Sesquipedalian
Awwww. I got it now. A sweep is not a "sweep" per se. That is just a flavor name and fluff for the maneuver. What matters is the end result which is a game condition.
Bingo! It's a little old school in that regard, in that an attack does damage and provides conditions, and you can really describe that however you want.
 


Henry

Autoexreginated
Bingo! It's a little old school in that regard, in that an attack does damage and provides conditions, and you can really describe that however you want.

...And they called me MAD at the University! BWAH-HAHAHAHA!


People have looked at me funny in the past for calling 4E "old-schoolish", but the more people bring out statements like this, the more I smile. :)

(Not saying PCat ever did, but I just get a grin out of hearing "4E" and "old school" in the same reference. If PCat ever looked at me funny, it wasn't for 4E, it was probably more for something like... corn dogs, or something.)
 

Ourph

First Post
I think one of the reasons this problem exists is because the powers are supposed to work no matter what, regardless of the situation. If you said, "No, in this situation, that power's not going to work", combined with adjudicating the results of actions based on the situation and not any concern for "balance", you can move away from it.
This is exactly why pg. 42 is very nice, even for experienced DMs. If "improvised" actions are too good it can lead to exploitation that changes the dynamic of the game (like PCs carrying bags of sand on their belts so that they can blind all their opponents), whereas if non-standard actions are noticeably worse than a PCs powers, there is no incentive to do creative things. The value of pg. 42 is that, at a glance, the DM can see what kind of damage a PC of a given level would be doing, on average, with his powers and use that as a starting point for assigning the effects of non-standard actions.
 
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Rechan

Adventurer
For an ooze you manage to hit a pocket of the ooze which disrupts it ... a freak chance occurrence where a fighters instinct found a hot spot which deforms it so that its mobility is impaired until its bits shift back together.
For an ooze my favorite description for knocked prone is "You splatter it into several pieces, and it must take a move action to pull itself back together".
 

awesomeocalypse

First Post
This might sound like an insane question, but is the overall theme of 4e to say "yes" to everything, including things like the above bolded text? Something I was reading, (not sure now, everything is a blur in the crash course) that you should try to say yes, (like Jim Carey in "Yes Man") to everything and find a creative way to make it work. If a power doesn't fit the creature, I would think saying "no" would be correct, like the ooze and the leg sweep power.

Say Yes to everything is more or less the theme, yes. And remember that many monsters will have some rules surrounding what does and does not work on them which attempt to simulate aspects of their powerset or physiology. Elemental creatures are all resistant or immune to the relevent element. Undead laugh at poison. Some tough creatures can't be knocked prone, and others can resist being slowed or forced to move.

The thing is though is that these resistances tend to be fairly limited, and only to apply to a few powers. Part of this is for bookkeeping (it can be hard to keep track when one monster has like 15 resistances and immunities), but its also for balance--its fine when a character is made slightly less effective against a certain kind of monster (say, because that character has a lot of forced movement powers, and the monster is resistant to that). Its less fun when none of a character's powers work, and he's essentially rendered ineffective throughout the fight. 4e mostly rejects the 3e paradigm of "oh you're a rogue facing some undead? tough luck, you're screwed."

In fact, I was thinking one encounter might be a "anti-arcane" zone in a dungeon where arcane powers don't work, or "anti-martial arena" where combatants duke it out, toe to toe, mano-y-mano, with basic attacks and wits and martial powers cannot function.

Anti-magic zones in previous editions were primarily a clumsy balancing mechanism to compensate for the dominance of casters at high levels. The caster would kick ass 90% of the time, but every so often he'd hit some anti-magic, turn back into a schlub, and the fighter could dominate.

This isn't really the dynamic in 4e. Everything is balanced, and everyone is always contributing. You never have a fighter who becomes obsolete and needs to be made relevant again via anti-magic. He's always gonna be a badass who more than holds his own against the wizard.

So, think about why you want to include anti-powersource zones, what you're trying to accomplish. If it isn't for balance, then what does it add? Limiting characters can force them to think outside the box or come up with unorthodox solutions, but only to a point--antimagic that simply shuts off a wizard's powers completely is instead more likely to simply frustrate them and make them more or less a non-factor for that encounter.

If you want to throw some wrinkles at your players and make them sweat a little (and what DM doesn't), 4e offers lots of ways to do so without simply shutting off their powers. Build encounters to counteract their strengths--if a mage always goes invisible, put 'em against a monster with true seeing and see how they handle it. If the strikers decimate even the strongest single targets, try a horde of minions and see how they like it when their massive attacks are mostly wasted, and the enemies just keep coming. If the party doesn't have a ton of range, put 'em against artillery or even some flying enemies.

Generally, letting the characters keep their powers, but putting them in situations where those powers must be used creatively to win will be more fun for players than simply taking those powers away. If someone rolled a wizard, chances are they want to play a wizard. Antimagic turns them into a non-wizard for its duration.
 

Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
...And they called me MAD at the University! BWAH-HAHAHAHA!


People have looked at me funny in the past for calling 4E "old-schoolish", but the more people bring out statements like this, the more I smile. :)

(Not saying PCat ever did, but I just get a grin out of hearing "4E" and "old school" in the same reference. If PCat ever looked at me funny, it wasn't for 4E, it was probably more for something like... corn dogs, or something.)

4e has niche protection and abstract hit points that makes it somewhat old school. (even if you dont stretch)

Nor do I want to know... what you are doing with corn dogs that gets you looked at funny.
 

Festivus

First Post
Yup. With the screen, I seldom have to open a book. Note that errata (which WotC calls "updates" for some reason) has changed the difficulty DCs to be (iirc) 4 less than they appear on your DM screen, making skill challenges easier overall. The modules you get should have all the correct DCs, though.

Honestly, with 4E I almost NEVER open a book. And for the DM screen,the only part I really look at with any frequency is the conditions.

I agree with PC, have the players describe their powers ("Hey, what does 'Sly flourish' look like?") Put the onus of tracking conditions that benefit the players on the players, put conditions that are bad on index cards and flick them at the player, telling them they can hand it back with a sucessful save.

Enjoy skill challenges (I hope they put some of those in the encounters), it's my most favorite thing in 4E. Think of it as fomalized skills checks.
 

Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
Excellent advice everyone! Hello again, diaglo!

P'Cat... make the DCs easier??? Humm, the Hackmaster GM inside me wants to pretend he never saw you write that. ;) Although that does remind me to check the errata.

Oh, and the character builder is probably the only reason why I gave 4e more than a cursory glance. I used to love chargen but over the years I get bored of it very easily, (hence why I gravitate toward OD&D with quick chargen... and sometimes quick death too. ;) ) But it does help the "chore" of making NPCs a lot easier. I am all about easier in my old age. :)

Well its pretty hot and part of that is access to all the classes and powers books updates (no reason to be restrictive to just books owned)... do check out the Adventure tools for npcs... most of them dont need to be anything near as detailed as a pc (even if they are fast to build with CB) .
 

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