Creating new dragons!

[freyar]

Yes, they look very cool indeed. As does JiCi's dragons, now that I've had time to look at them.

I've been thinking of the Aluminum Dragon, and I think the breath should be d8's and a line definitely. It isn't as weak as a white, so it should have the standard 2 dice per age category.

Also, statistically, I was thinking similar to the copper dragon.

Updated above for Wyrmling

Any thoughts on other Metallic Dragons?

Tin? Cast Iron? Magnesium? Lead? Zinc? Carbide? Tantalum? Ytterbium?

I second that all these dragons look pretty neat. As far as more metallics, I like the idea of a magnesium dragon. Considering that magnesium burns (quite brightly!) when it's in strip or powder form, a line breath weapon of half fire/half untyped (light) damage would be appropriate. A second breath weapon (do all metallics get 2?) could be some sort of stunning effect due to bright light. Not sure where to place this on the CR scale, though. Maybe between copper and bronze? How valuable is it?

What kind of flavor would we think of for these new metallics?

 

[RavinRay]

Well, there are five we seemingly can't touch: chromium, cobalt, iron, nickel, and tungsten, because those names were used for the five ferrous dragons that appeared in an old Dragon issue and which have been updated to 3.0 (not 3.5) stats except for tungsten at the Inzeladun site hosted by EN World. Some of the vets here (BOZ and co.) hinted that the ferrous dragons have been submitted as an article proposal to Paizo, and that it may have been accepted. We'll have to wait and see.

In the meantime, we can expand metallic names to include alloys, because brass, bronze, and steel have already been used; there was a 2e electrum dragon that will be converted on another thread; I'm making a pewter dragon as well. I actually used cesium and rubidium dragons at first two of the three aquametallic dragons, which like magnesium are very reactive in water or air; but I changed that and got tumbaga, and might use amalgam as well.

I suggested to Paizo a trio of "lost" metallic dragons to complement the "lost" orange, purple, and yellow dragons; these would be electrum (will be converted), pewter (new), and mercury (converted already). The steel dragon and brown dragon are the "odd" dragons of their families (the former is an alloy of a metal and non-metal, has two lethal breath weapons, and tend to LG-LN alignments; the latter is a broadly-defined color and is flightless). To add to that, I already have "lost" gem dragons over at the Wizards message board (jade, opal and turquoise) and classify the obsidian dragon as the "odd" gem dragon (obsidian is a glass not a crystal like the other gems, the dragon does not have fire resistance 15 because it already has the fire subtype and is consequently vulnerable to cold, and it has a NE alignment).

Add up all those new dragons with the classic five from each family, and you have a grand total of 36 dragons, 12 each for the chromatic, metallic, and gem families.

 

[freyar]

Ok, I nominate RavinRay as a master dragon-designer. Whew, that's quite a few you've made!

Let me suggest some flavor ideas for the aluminum and magnesium dragons.

Aluminum: The acid attack makes me think they should live somewhere wet, perhaps tropical forests? They could be canny hunters who eliminate evil creatures, creating "safe zones" around their lairs. I'd suggest that they are generally reclusive but may attract unusually good aligned monstrous humanoids as followers.

Magnesium: Fiercely territorial, they pick an isolated (otherwise defenseless) community and protect it fanatically. They are notoriously grumpy toward outsiders, but they have been known to contact adventurers for help dealing with trouble they can't handle themselves.

Comments?

 

[Gothenem]

Freyar, both of those sound good. I like the idea for the Magnesium dragon. I think that tropical jungles are cool for the Aluminum dragon too

There are plenty of base metals out there, and some of them are very cool too. Few average people realize how many different metals there are, escpecially in the noble metals category.

Iridium for example, though that may be more of an epic dragon, considering how similar Iridium is to Platinum. There are also fantasy metals. I was contemplating some dragons based of metals like the ones in Magic of Faerûn. A hizagkuur dragon? Or a Kheferu dragon (sandstorm)?

I actually think it is harder to come up with new Chromatic dragons, as there are only so many colors without getting into the realm of just plain wierd (Oh No!! The dreaded Teal Dragon!!!)

As for reasons why they exist, the Dragonfall war could give us those...New dragon types created by their respective sires to gain advantage/counter move the other. Just like Tiamat created the Tiamat's spawn, so Bahamut responded with Dragonborn.

That said, there are so many options out there. I really do like the dragons posted so far, and an excited to see RavinRay's Aquatic Dragons.

Fot this time around, we could create a set of 5 for each. As RavinRay has three of each already, the Aluminum and Magnesium Dragons can fill out the Metallics, how about the Chromatics?

Pink? Beige? Teal? Cyan? Magenta? Slighty Off-White? Green with Purple Polka-Dots? Red and Yellow Striped?

Actually, Beige and Cyan could make interesting dragons. I need to go to the paint store to find more color names

 

[RavinRay]

For chromatics, one way for more names is to use pigments and dyes. That's how I arrived at sepia (the brown ink from cuttlefish), ultramarine (crushed lapis lazuli used for ocean scenes in old paintings), and vermilion (powdered cinnabar or HgS). Shade's gonna put up the pink dragon sometime later for conversion.

IMO, the three "lost" chromatics should be cyan, magenta, and yellow, because these are the secondary colors formed by combining the three primary colors of the additive color scheme (red+green=yellow, red+blue=magenta, green+blue=cyan).

I've wanted aquatic dragons for a long time, partly because who's Medrinia representing as a unique aquatic dragon in the court of Bahamut, if there aren't any new species of aquatic dragons to begin with (aside from the "let's slap the celestial template on the dragon turtle" solution). Krynn's got sea dragons, brine dragons, amphidragons, and the eponymously-named aquatic dragons. Plus, I really doubt Tiamat and Bahamut (and Sardior for that matter) are turning a blind eye towards the potential of having draconic and humanoid worshippers beneath the waves.

Anyway, as soon as I take care of the spacing for the dragon tables, I'll post them.

 

[freyar]

For the chromatic dragons, I'd have to vote for cyan, magenta, and yellow as well. I think those are still the "primary colors" of newsprint, for example, and they are the "negative" colors of rgb. But should we stat out the metallics first?

 

[Gothenem]

I'm hesitant to post yet ANOTHER version of the yellow dragon. I'm all in for Cyan and Magenta though!

 

[freyar]

I agree with not doing the yellow dragon, since it exists already...

For the aluminum dragon, here are some suggested SLAs, about in line with the copper dragon in strength and along the theme of a jungle hunter:
2/day - plant growth (adult and older)
1/day - call lightning storm (old and older)
wall of thorns (ancient and older)
acid fog (great wyrm)
I'd also suggest perhaps pounce (ex) as a special attack.

 

[RavinRay]

Before we do the stats and the SLA's, a quick comment here.

Maybe we can group the dragons into subfamilies. Just as the orange, purple, and yellow dragons in the Dragon Compendium Vol. 1 were a separate subfamily of chromatics, we ought to group related chromatics, metallics, and gems. And we should make them distinctive enough such that they have common features not found in other subfamilies.

For instance, I've always wanted to transplant chromatic and metallic dragons into an Oriental Adventures-style setting. They'd still be innate sorcerous spellcasters, but they pick spells from the wu-jen spell list, just as oriental sorcerers have that choice. Dragons that can cast divine spells as arcane spells can choose from the shaman spell list and specific shaman domains, to further add to the oriental flavor.

 

[Gothenem]

Howver we already have a set of oriental dragons in the Lung Dragons (Which I actually like)

I never did like the OA shaman spells.

However, I'm all for grouping. Actually, I was thinking more of an Aztec flavor for these dragons. Not enough "Western World" dragons, so maybe an aztec/native american flavour for these dragons?

On the other hand, we could go for a "persian" or "african" theme as well. Again, two themes that are not done.

To Actually Group the dragons.

Metallic: Aluminum, Electrum, Magnesium
Chromatic: Cyan, Magenta, Pink
Gem: Peridot, Tanzanite, Malachite