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Creative Writing Programs and genre/game writing

Radiating Gnome

Adventurer
So, a plan . . .

All right, is this something we want to do on the boards, or should we look at doing it on another web site.

Do we need to establish some sort of ground rules? Do we want this to be open to the public, or is it going to be a members-only sort of group. (Both have their advantages, but it can be a lot easier to submit to a writing group if it's limited and we all understand that the work submitted may not always be a final draft).

Thoughts?

-rg
 

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Wicht

Hero
I would say that if you started a group on another site, a limited group is best.

But if we kept it to this board, maybe doing something in story hour, then I would have it open to any.
 

Radiating Gnome

Adventurer
If we kept it on the boards, I think it would be better to request a new forum, rather than throwing all of this in to the story hour.

If we put it in the story hour, it would blur the line between story hour and fiction -- and I think that line is blurry enough for those of us who will be writing things that are based on game scenarios, settings, and characters. The problem is that very often the things that make good gaming don't make good fiction -- epic battles are a lot of fun to play but can be pretty tedious to read, motivations are very different, etc. We can detail that more in the future.

The other thing that we can do with our own sight and a limited group is set some deadlines -- I know that would help me get things done (I wrote more new material working on the Iron DM entries last week than I have in the past three months).

My recommendation is that we set the group up with it's own site, for private submission and discussion, and then we can have some more public presentation and debate on the forum boards.

-rg
 

toberane

First Post
An observation:

This is a post about writers, for writers. Is it any wonder that the majority of posts so far are about 20 paragraphs long? :)

Between swooping and plodding, I take a middle line. I like to swoop in the beginning, just get all my thoughts and ideas out there on paper, going back and rereading and reediting as little as possible. Then, at certain intervals, I'll go back and reread, revise, reread some more, and revise yet again. I find that I work best getting my ideas down and trying to reject as few as possible (like brainstorming). When I go through multiple revisions, I can be brutally honest and say "What was I thinking?" and throw out whole chapters if necessary. But if I were to constantly rewrite all the time and agaonize over every sentence and word choice, two things would happen. One: I would never get it finished. I have a short enough attention span as it is. If I wrote as a slow, measured pace, I'd come up with twenty ideas I liked better before the first one was done, and I'd invariably replace one project for the other. Two: I would lose a whole lot of ideas along the way that just came to me on a whim as I was "swooping". True, some deserve to be lost, but that's what the editing process is all about, isn't it?

As far as which is better, I think I've known enough different artists, writers, actors, and musicians to know that everyone has something different that works for them. Plodding brings out the best work in some of you. Others, like me, would only be stifled by this approach.

Writing may be a craft and an art, but it is also a skill, and with any skill, the more work you do and the more you learn about it, the better you get. Many people I know have used their "talent" in some field as almost an excuse NOT to work on their trade. They rely on their talent, on the praise that they get from their peers, and they stop working to improve. Meanwhile, here comes someone who had to work to reach the same level of skill, and because he's used to working, he continues to improve and surpasses the first guy.


As for the earlier poster who is currently in school and believes that it is impossible to learn to write (I believe it was Heap Thaumaturgist, that you're either born with it or you aren't, I don't buy it. I am a good writer, if what I've been told by people who have read my work is any indication. I have talent in that area. But I guarantee you that there are a lot of people vastly less talented than me putting out work just as good or better than me and getting published, because I lack the discipline to finish most projects that I start. When I was involved in acting, I saw incredibly talented actors easily surpassed in skill by people who had little talent but much more desire.

I believe that writing can be taught, regardless of your talent-level, as long as the desire to learn is there. Any teacher, regardless of the subject, cannot force learning on you. They can only guide you in ways that you can learn for yourself. So the creative writing teacher that has his or her students writing all the time, and then critiques those writings, is trying to guide the students along their path to learning. It is up to the student if he will follow that path or stay where he is at. But to say that no amount of teaching is going to help them (I'm paraphrasing, not quoting) is doing an injustice to the teachers who spend long hours and get paid very little to try and guide the next generation of writers.

There. That post may not have been as long as some of the others, but I believe that it is quite long enough to fit comfortably in this thread. :)
 
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toberane

First Post
Re: So like, there are a bunch of us here . . .

Radiating Gnome said:
Let me get this straight.

There are a handful of us here who are writers of some stripe, and who are interested in Genre stuff. Who see the challenges and rewards of writing in a genre when most of the rest of the writing group world does not.

So . . . should we be looking in to starting something ourselves?

Is that crazy?

How many people might be interested?

-rg

Great idea! Count me in!
 

Wicht

Hero
Radiating Gnome said:
My recommendation is that we set the group up with it's own site, for private submission and discussion, and then we can have some more public presentation and debate on the forum boards.

That would be fine by me as long as someone wants to maintain the site :)
 

takyris

First Post
I would maybe be interested in something like that.

I've also found that depending on where you live, there's a good chance that there's a writing group in your area that doesn't frown on Genre Fiction. I've been in four groups here in the SF Bay Area, all of which were genre-based. Some had more fantasy and some had more of a hard SF bent, but all of them were open to seeing anything that I wrote.

It might also be a good idea to set some expectations for what you wanted in terms of a group. If you just want to show off fun stuff you wrote, that's cool. If you want to share ideas, that's cool. If you want someone to rip your story apart in order to get you to a point where you can rewrite it and sell it, that's cool. But when you have a group where one person wants his story critiqued with in-depth attention with an eye toward publication and one person is just writing for relaxation and doesn't really want to hear criticism, that gets not-cool fast -- unless everyone knows the ground rules.

Sorry to jump in. Know I'm new on this board, and there's no reason any of you should listen to me -- but I've been through several writing classes, plus Clarion, plus several writing groups with various success levels, and I like the idea of a group of gamers critiquing each other's fiction.

-Tacky
 

Radiating Gnome

Adventurer
Wicht said:


That would be fine by me as long as someone wants to maintain the site :)

I can do it on my radiatinggnome site -- the site is stupid and low tech now, (it's a long, sad, dull story about thumbing my nose at my former employer) but hosting the group there would justify the site a little.

-rg
 


Genre writing groups

Not that I think this wouldn't be a marvelous idea, but I also feel I should direct everyone's attention here:

www.critters.org

The Critters workshop is really great, and specializes in genre fiction. It takes time, don't misunderstand me, but it gets you a lot of responses to your work so you can get a feel for what most people think. It should also be noted that the quality of the submissions you'll critique will vary heavily. But it is an extremely useful tool, and I've really enjoyed my time as a member. I therefore am promoting it out of gratitude and a bit of fondness for the whole thing.

Michelle Lyons
 

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