Crouching Tiger, Not so Hidden CGI (trailer)

CapnZapp

Legend
Crouching/Hidden was a cool amalgam of "Oscar-bait" and "martial-arts movie".
I would say it was something as rare as a wuxia film that still respected acting ability and story.

In other words, one of my favorite movies.

Far too much "fantasy/sci-fi" are made with only a token effort in these areas, when in reality they're central to any kind of movie.

I love genre films, but using that as an excuse to skimp on actor and writer quality is to me a complete waste.
 

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I would say it was something as rare as a wuxia film that still respected acting ability and story.

In other words, one of my favorite movies.

Far too much "fantasy/sci-fi" are made with only a token effort in these areas, when in reality they're central to any kind of movie.

I love genre films, but using that as an excuse to skimp on actor and writer quality is to me a complete waste.

I think a lot of people in the states just are not accustomed to the conventions in much of wuxia and read that as bad acting or bad story (the acting style is also just very different over there). But it is a very popular, pretty mainstream genre over, and most of the shows and films are based on novels known to the audience. Crouching tiger is based on the fourth novel in a series for example. When they condense a big story into a movie, they can jump around a bit because their audience knows it. Crouching Tiger was made for a global audience and didn't assume that familiarity. I think it is a great film, but the acting, action and story in lots of wuxia is just as good and better in many cases. Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon is a bit of a greatest hits of wuxia. And many of its actors, like Michelle Yeoh and Cheng Pei Pei were staples of the genre. If you go back to the 60s and start watching old wuxia films though the end of the 90s, you see most of its seems are an homage to earlier films. If you watch movies like One Armed Swordsman, Lady Hermit, Golden Swallow, A Touch of Zen, New Dragon Inn, Dragon Inn, Last Hurrah for Chivalry, The Swordsman Trilogy, Bride With White Hair, Killer Clans, King of Beggars, Eagle Shooting Heroes, Avenging Eagle, and Tai Chi Master you'll see some great stories and wonderful acting and fight choreography. They are done differently than we might do in the states, but there are just cultural reasons for that.
 
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Ryujin

Legend
My introduction to the genre was actually a Japanese version of old Chinese stories; the late '70s English translation of "Suikoden", which was known as "The Water Margin" in English. It was a two season TV show.
 

CapnZapp

Legend
I think a lot of people in the states just are not accustomed to the conventions in much of wuxia and read that as bad acting or bad story (the acting style is also just very different over there). But it is a very popular, pretty mainstream genre over, and most of the shows and films are based on novels known to the audience. Crouching tiger is based on the fourth novel in a series for example. When they condense a big story into a movie, they can jump around a bit because their audience knows it. Crouching Tiger was made for a global audience and didn't assume that familiarity. I think it is a great film, but the acting, action and story in lots of wuxia is just as good and better in many cases. Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon is a bit of a greatest hits of wuxia. And many of its actors, like Michelle Yeoh and Cheng Pei Pei were staples of the genre. If you go back to the 60s and start watching old wuxia films though the end of the 90s, you see most of its seems are an homage to earlier films. If you watch movies like One Armed Swordsman, Lady Hermit, Golden Swallow, A Touch of Zen, New Dragon Inn, Dragon Inn, Last Hurrah for Chivalry, The Swordsman Trilogy, Bride With White Hair, Killer Clans, King of Beggars, Eagle Shooting Heroes, Avenging Eagle, and Tai Chi Master you'll see some great stories and wonderful acting and fight choreography. They are done differently than we might do in the states, but there are just cultural reasons for that.
I am certainly not saying ALL genre films have bad acting and bad writing.

I am saying I can accept a somewhat lower standard in those areas if the subject interests me greatly, but that's where I draw the line.

I find that genre films have a high frequency of being badly written and/or acted. (Perhaps that goes for mainstream dramas too; I could very well simply not notice.)

What I'm saying is that Crouching pleased me greatly. It was true to its genre while still catering to me as a westerner: quality writing, adequate actors, great pacing, great budget/effects.

Now that I've read your reply I will add another item to my list of what makes Crouching such an exceptionally pleasing wuxia film for me: that it does not rely on (too much) prior knowledge. I still don't think that's the main reason I remember it so fondly over the dozens of other attempts, though.

Many other wuxia films obsess far too much on the film as a painting - they look astonishing, but there's not much engagement behind the surface. Others are simply behemoths collapsing under their own weight. Yet others inject their stories with the rather peculiar pratfalling kind of humor that went out of vogue in the west with Charlie Chaplin and Buster Keaton. Yet others exceed the limits of their budgets. And some simply have no budget.

But rest assured, the genre is very dear to me regardless - I meant what I said when I am capable of lowering my standards in my special-interest areas! (And to not make that sound as a slight: I love that films from China, Hong Kong, Korea etc can be such surprising five star efforts, and I love that "my" western film scene is getting strong and healthy competition :) )

And I have high hopes you and I have a bright future: very soon now the Chinese film industry will reach (and surpass?) the standards set by Hollywood (and to a lesser extent the European scene) - hopefully Crouching Tiger will be remembered as a trailblazer and not an exception!

Best Regards
Zapp
 
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Ryujin

Legend
I am certainly not saying ALL genre films have bad acting and bad writing.

I am saying I can accept a somewhat lower standard in those areas if the subject interests me greatly, but that's where I draw the line.

I find that genre films have a high frequency of being badly written and/or acted. (Perhaps that goes for mainstream dramas too; I could very well simply not notice.)

What I'm saying is that Crouching pleased me greatly. It was true to its genre while still catering to me as a westerner: quality writing, adequate actors, great pacing, great budget/effects.

Now that I've read your reply I will add another item to my list of what makes Crouching such an exceptionally pleasing wuxia film for me: that it does not rely on (too much) prior knowledge. I still don't think that's the main reason I remember it so fondly over the dozens of other attempts, though.

Many other wuxia films obsess far too much on the film as a painting - they look astonishing, but there's not much engagement behind the surface. Others are simply behemoths collapsing under their own weight. Yet others inject their stories with the rather peculiar pratfalling kind of humor that went out of vogue in the west with Charlie Chaplin and Buster Keaton. Yet others exceed the limits of their budgets. And some simply have no budget.

But rest assured, the genre is very dear to me regardless - I meant what I said when I am capable of lowering my standards in my special-interest areas! (And to not make that sound as a slight: I love that films from China, Hong Kong, Korea etc can be such surprising five star efforts, and I love that "my" western film scene is getting strong and healthy competition :) )

And I have high hopes you and I have a bright future: very soon now the Chinese film industry will reach (and surpass?) the standards set by Hollywood (and to a lesser extent the European scene) - hopefully Crouching Tiger will be remembered as a trailblazer and not an exception!

Best Regards
Zapp

Where would you put something like "Kung Fu Hustle" on that spectrum?
 

Mallus

Legend
If you watch movies like One Armed Swordsman, Lady Hermit, Golden Swallow, A Touch of Zen, New Dragon Inn, Dragon Inn, Last Hurrah for Chivalry, The Swordsman Trilogy, Bride With White Hair, Killer Clans, King of Beggars, Eagle Shooting Heroes, Avenging Eagle, and Tai Chi Master you'll see some great stories and wonderful acting and fight choreography.
Thanks for the list! I've seen a few of these and enjoyed them -- particularly Touch of Zen. Fight scenes (and flying Buddhists!) aside, that was one of the best shot films I've ever seen. The camerawork, even in the "mundane" scenes is astonishing. And the acting was terrific, too. I just wish I could find a better print than the awful one on the DVD I got from Netflix.

Speaking of, I believe Netflix just made a number of these available to stream. If I can get the wifi working at my mom's place, it may be a very wuxia Christmas!
 

Thanks for the list! I've seen a few of these and enjoyed them -- particularly Touch of Zen. Fight scenes (and flying Buddhists!) aside, that was one of the best shot films I've ever seen. The camerawork, even in the "mundane" scenes is astonishing. And the acting was terrific, too. I just wish I could find a better print than the awful one on the DVD I got from Netflix.

Speaking of, I believe Netflix just made a number of these available to stream. If I can get the wifi working at my mom's place, it may be a very wuxia Christmas!

Touch of Zen is a very interesting movie (the kind you can watch over and over again, and notice new things each time). Unfortunately I haven't been able to find any particularly clean versions of Touch of Zen. There is this version, but it is french: http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=17069

They do have Come Drink with Me on Netflix (which is also by King Hu, who did Touch of Zen). Here is a trailer (the trailer has bad dubbing, the version on netflix is subtitles): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_rfMXa163w
 

Mallus

Legend
They do have Come Drink with Me on Netflix (which is also by King Hu, who did Touch of Zen). Here is a trailer (the trailer has bad dubbing, the version on netflix is subtitles): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_rfMXa163w
Thanks, again. I've been meaning to check out more King Hu. I'm ashamed to admit I'd hadn't heard of him until my wife and I watched this excellent documentary series by Mark Cousins on the history of cinema called "The Story of Film: An Odyssey". I highly recommend it, if you haven't seen it. The whole thing, all 15 hours, was available on Netflix... and... (checking) isn't anymore... damn.

It's probably nothing new if you've studied film, but for amateur cinephiles like me & mine, it was well worth seeing.
 



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