Current State of VTTs?

[Retreater]

After close to 9 months using Roll20, I've gotten used to running games on a VTT. I don't anticipate that I will be going back to in-person gaming for a long time (my groups now consist of players who are spread out across the country and players who are new parents who can't leave young children to play games in person).
There are things I don't like about Roll20: annual subscriptions, full-price books, slow loads and clogged servers, limits on book sharing and the number of campaigns I can run, a heavy D&D focus and no products for Savage Worlds, limited support for PF2. It was great that it could all be run through a browser without installation (because I didn't have a PC at the time to run anything else).
Years before I got Roll20, I sprang for an ultimate license for Fantasy Grounds (classic), but I barely used it because it required so much more than I could do (whereas I was up and running on Roll20 in a couple weeks). I still have the license, and even after coming back with some general knowledge about VTTs, it's still very clunky for my tastes. The popular opinion from others I know is that the new Unity version of Fantasy Grounds offers nothing but slower load times - and of course, I would also have to purchase a new license.
The other major VTT I've been hearing about is Foundry VTT. It seems to have the benefit of players not having to install new software, but it also is giving me pause. It's mostly fan-developed modules, and there's no legal way to get official support on there (published modules, bestiaries, etc.). In fact, it seems that D&D Beyond just did a cease-and-desist on a developer to stop the importing of purchased content into Foundry, making it nearly unusable for 5e players on a corporate whim. I've also heard of users getting viruses on their computers from downloading the rules modules.
So should I stick with the devil I know (Roll20) and all its faults or try another VTT - and which would you suggest? Important factors are automation, ease of use, dependability, and support from publishers.

 

[tetrasodium]

I use arkenforge as a vtt for meatspace play & it works great for my needs. Here's a pic of my group during a break back way before covid after I made the tvbox ion the table

 

[ninjayeti]

Personally, FG is my go to with the caveat that it is more complex so it requires more time investment to get it to work optimally. I can't tell you how many times I said "I wish FG did X" or "there should be an easier way to do this in FG" only to find out weeks later that it DID I just hadn't figured out how yet. FG seems to have a lot of what you are looking for (automation, PF2 and SW support, one time purchases, cheaper books, etc.) so I think it might be worth taking a deeper dive before you completely write it off.

 

[innerdude]

I bought Foundry VTT while it was still in beta about 6 months ago.

100% recommend it. It's so vastly superior to Roll20 for overall speed, usability, user interface, and asset management that it's not even really a contest. Seriously, Roll20 would have to pay me to use their platform after having used Foundry for 6 months.

I tested it using the standard "self hosting" model first, and it worked beautifully. One minor port forwarding change in my home router for port 30000 and it worked instantly.

However, I already pay for web hosting for my wife's business website, so I ended up switching to using my web host (Dreamhost), who fully supports the Node-based system. Took all of 30 minutes to set up with nothing more than a little help from some of Dreamhost's FAQ pages.


I will say, if you are completely non-technically-inclined --- meaning, if the thought of having to actually use the Linux console to tool around with your web host to get it working sounds like some form of voodoo witchcraft --- you're better off either doing the traditional "self hosting" model, or being willing to pay for Foundry's "Forge" hosting service.


But in terms of the actual tool set, Foundry is fantastic.

I'm currently using the fan-made modules for Savage Worlds, but they just announced official Savage Worlds support last week.

I haven't tested the D&D 5 stuff at all, so if you're looking at that in particular, you may want to do some of your own research, but the community Discord channel is great and very helpful, and I can't imagine that it's any worse than the Savage Worlds play experience, which is excellent.

As far as official material support --- this may be a sticking point if you really are trying to avoid doing the work of importing the material. If you really, really just want everything pre-built for you, no manual setup required to run official modules, then Foundry probably isn't for you.

For me, the actual interface and usability, and ability to fully manage my own tokens/maps in a concise, user-friendly way, makes Foundry a total win.

*Edit --- the more I think about it, the more I'd recommend Foundry only if you're somewhat versed in general web hosting principles, especially if you're going to be the host/GM. The actual user interface for players requires zero technical knowledge, but the setup is a different story. If you're fluent in basic web hosting principles, setting up Foundry will feel intuitive and self-explanatory.

If not, your mileage may vary.

 

[Randomthoughts]

Years before I got Roll20, I sprang for an ultimate license for Fantasy Grounds (classic), but I barely used it because it required so much more than I could do (whereas I was up and running on Roll20 in a couple weeks). I still have the license, and even after coming back with some general knowledge about VTTs, it's still very clunky for my tastes. The popular opinion from others I know is that the new Unity version of Fantasy Grounds offers nothing but slower load times - and of course, I would also have to purchase a new license.
<snip>
So should I stick with the devil I know (Roll20) and all its faults or try another VTT - and which would you suggest? Important factors are automation, ease of use, dependability, and support from publishers.

Since you already have an Ultimate Classic FG license, I would give it another shot. As you probably know, SW is officially supported there. Unity is no longer in Beta; you would just need to upgrade your Classic license to Unity.

I got Foundry during the CM sale. It definitely isn't the turn-key solution I had experience for 5e on FG.

 

[TheVirtualDM]

I am another vote for Fantasy Grounds (FG). I have been using the FG VTT for a couple of years now, and it is fantastic. That being said, I understand your initial frustration with the steep learning curve that FG has. All I can say is that the time spent up front will pay big in the long run. You mentioned that "automation, ease of use, dependability, and support from publishers" are important. You can't beat FG for VTT automation, dependability, and support from publishers... and the community. The FG community is awesome and offers a ton of support. As for "ease of use", once you learn to use FG is will be easy to use. If you decide to give FG another go, I would suggest a few resources to help you figure it out.

Mattekure's Fantasy Grounds Training Videos

The Fantasy Grounds Forums

Fantasy Grounds College

Good luck with your search. I hope that you find a VTT that meets your needs. Happy gaming!!

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

So should I stick with the devil I know (Roll20) and all its faults or try another VTT - and which would you suggest? Important factors are automation, ease of use, dependability, and support from publishers.

Personally I've become a bit tired of the lack of good UX in roll20. It almost seems like they just rewarmed existing VTT UI conventions and never really thought the thing through well at all. It is also REALLY buggy. OTOH I don't think there are any better online VTTs. There simply isn't enough money in it, and they are incredibly complex applications.

You could try MapTool, or its fork (I forget what that is called off the top of my head, it sounded promising). It is at least as good as any of the non-web-based commercial VTTs. It has been a few years since I used MapTool, but my understanding is the scripting support has improved a LOT (it always had very complex scripting, but before it used some sort of horrible ad-hoc hacked-together syntax that was almost utterly unreadable). I think current versions use one of the various JVM scripting languages, which would be a HUGE improvement!

 

[Zaukrie]

I have used roll20 for about 6 months and just switched to Foundry.

Pretty sure you can import non-adventures into it still....but I'm not sure. You can also use Beyond20 (my plan) to manage characters and monsters. I'm hosting on the Forge. I'm one day in, so don't know much yet.......

Astral has a legit marketplace, and has stuff on Drivethru also.....

Talespire looks very intriguing.

For me, I don't want a TON of automation. I want a good interface, good maps, and integration with DnDBeyond.

 

[MNblockhead]

I'm another Foundry convert. I do host it with The Forge, however, so I am paying a subscription. But you don't have to. You can host it from your PC. But I want to run it from any computer, including my work computer when overseas, on which I can't install gaming software.

But I generally do not recommend it for people looking for something to primarily run D&D, esp. if they usually run WotC modules.

If you run D&D 5e and mostly WotC modules, and if you and your players don't mind installing software, get FG Classic (or Unity, but I found FGU to be sluggish and prone to hanging, to the point it was unusable)

If you run D&D 5e and mostly WotC adventures you and/or your players don't want to have to install software, go with Roll20.

If you run mostly d20 games, including 5e, but don't need support for everything in all the books, and like to run third-party adventures or brew your own, AND you and your players don't mind installing software, consider d20pro. It doesn't have all the bells and whistles of Fantasy Grounds, but I really like the clean and simple to use interface.

Foundry is for folks who love to tinker and stretch the limits of what a VTT can do. It has the best support for third-party-developed enhancements, but that comes with the risk of add-on conflicting, not being updated and breaking when the core program is updated. The 5e game system is SRD only, lacks support for a lot of D&D mechanics, and is just wonky overall. Basically, I love foundry, but am considering paying someone to help me configure various third-party add-ons to get the level of automation working the way I want because I just don't want to spend my free time troubleshooting issues all the time.

Personally, I find foundry is best when you keep it basic. Focus on map features and using something else for character sheets and don't worry much about dice automations. Once you want to have full-featured character sheets and lots of automations, you'll fall down a rabbit hole of add-ons and troubleshooting.

For lighter, more theater of the mind games, I use Role. Which just released its beta version to the public (I backed it on Kickstarter, so had earlier access).

 

[meverz]

Add my vote for Fantasy Grounds. Especially if you are running WotC modules. everything is already set up and ready to go. So much is already automated, and what isn't can be with a little bit of work. Once you have everything set up, (even if you have to enter custom effects), everything works so much faster than even in person play. I now actually prefer to play on FG rather than around the table.

I haven't yet tried out the Unity version, although I will for my next campaign starting in the new year, but apparently it has much improved over the past few months.