Custom Spells (Revised 7-18-2006)

[Rystil Arden]

I'm fine with the costs, after the clarification that they weren't 1000gp x spell level^2. It's steep, but I can dig it. Some of the new spells I'm working on I might throw out as general ones though. We'll see I guess. As was pointed out, the gp will refresh a little better than in a standard campaign, so I think it will work out ok.

Also, see my note about the Tongues Spell. Does that change any of your quibbles?

I still would rather it can only read what you can read--what if somebody wrote in a cipher-language that only she knew, but the spoken form of the cipher was actually just plain Common, for instance?

 

[Ferrix]

I also don't see how the skull reader spell is anything but a neat cantrip trick. Perhaps note that it always speaks in a normal volume voice at medium pace (say 1/2 page a minute). Add that it floats above the text being read and should the text be moved (although pages could be turned) the spell ends. And that if it finishes reading a text that the spell ends, thus making it good for one book/reading at a time.

As a 0th level spell it would seem fine to me as it lacks all of the versatility of the cantrips people are associating it with (mage hand, ghost sound, etc.). It does one thing only, reads non-magical texts outloud in a normal voice in the language they are written. It's a luxury spell that really doesn't do much and requires a costly (for a 0th level spell) focus.

I like seeing spells like this, flavorful, useful in that magic can do the normal day-to-day things for you kind of way.

Also, the spell does nothing other than reading the text as presented. If it's garbled and requires a decipher script check to understand, you are just going to get garbled spoken sounds that still require a decipher script check.

 

[Rystil Arden]

By the way, IcyCool--my quibble is that it should only be able to read languages the caster could read, which isn't quite as strict as only languages the caster can understand. For instance, many languages use Dwarven runes, so if you can read the runes, the skull should be able to read all those languages.

Ferrix--if it wouldn't read ciphers but would read things written in languages with characters that you don't recognise, first of all where do you draw the line and second of all--isn't that giving out a lot of information when it either fails or succeeds?

 

[IcyCool]

I still would rather it can only read what you can read--what if somebody wrote in a cipher-language that only she knew, but the spoken form of the cipher was actually just plain Common, for instance?

Then the reader will read the "just plain common", i.e. it simply reads the words on the page. If it required decipher script before the spell, it would still require decipher script. Am I missing some terribly broken thing there? (I might be and I'm just dense )

Also, the spell does nothing other than reading the text as presented. If it's garbled and requires a decipher script check to understand, you are just going to get garbled spoken sounds that still require a decipher script check.

Exactly.

Also, while I want all the players to like my rules creations, I really should pander to the judges. Who are you, so that I might know who's posterior to kiss?

 

[Ferrix]

I still would rather it can only read what you can read--what if somebody wrote in a cipher-language that only she knew, but the spoken form of the cipher was actually just plain Common, for instance?

Could you give an example of this and how the spell would somehow break the cipher?

If you were using a substitution cipher, say off by four with a Caeser Cipher, you'd get something like this...

xlmw mw e wigvix qiwweki xli woypp gerrsx higshi

The skull would then just render it as gibberish and would be spoken as such. Although it would have an interesting time pronouncing xlmw

Even though the actual message is "this is a secret message the skull cannot decode".

 

[Ferrix]

By the way, IcyCool--my quibble is that it should only be able to read languages the caster could read, which isn't quite as strict as only languages the caster can understand. For instance, many languages use Dwarven runes, so if you can read the runes, the skull should be able to read all those languages.

Ferrix--if it wouldn't read ciphers but would read things written in languages with characters that you don't recognise, first of all where do you draw the line and second of all--isn't that giving out a lot of information when it either fails or succeeds?

Well, it would read the gibberish outloud... and if you don't recognize the language... you just don't know what language it is, whether it's a cipher or another language all together.

Although, limiting it by alphabet could be cool.

Also, I'm wondering what skill is used to create ciphers, I want to create a gnomish cryptologist and don't really know.

 

[Rystil Arden]

Could you give an example of this and how the spell would somehow break the cipher?

If you were using a substitution cipher, say off by four with a Caeser Cipher, you'd get something like this...

xlmw mw e wigvix qiwweki xli woypp gerrsx higshi

The skull would then just render it as gibberish and would be spoken as such. Although it would have an interesting time pronouncing xlmw

Even though the actual message is "this is a secret message the skull cannot decode".

If the cipher was made of symbols that stood for the sounds in the word (and/or letters) but only I know the symbols and the symbols otherwise don't stand for any sort of sound. It is unreasonable that the spell could figure out what the sounds were, I readily admit that, but it is unreasonable in the same way as the skull reading something written in Dwarven runes if the caster doesn't know the Dwarven alphabet and what the sounds are.

 

[Rystil Arden]

Well, it would read the gibberish outloud... and if you don't recognize the language... you just don't know what language it is, whether it's a cipher or another language all together.

Although, limiting it by alphabet could be cool.

Also, I'm wondering what skill is used to create ciphers, I want to create a gnomish cryptologist and don't really know.

Decipher Script would do it, I believe. Just like Forgery also lets you detect them.

 

[Rystil Arden]

Then the reader will read the "just plain common", i.e. it simply reads the words on the page. If it required decipher script before the spell, it would still require decipher script. Am I missing some terribly broken thing there? (I might be and I'm just dense )

This is partially conflated with my answer to Ferrix. Let's say I'm a human who speaks common, and I create a cipher with symbols that mean nothing normally (curly line #1 means A, squiggle #2 means B, etc). The spell would read my cipher in perfect Common and decipher it, wouldn't it? If not, how in Khyber is it reading the dwarven runes that are just squiggles to me also?

 

[Ferrix]

If the cipher was made of symbols that stood for the sounds in the word (and/or letters) but only I know the symbols and the symbols otherwise don't stand for any sort of sound. It is unreasonable that the spell could figure out what the sounds were, I readily admit that, but it is unreasonable in the same way as the skull reading something written in Dwarven runes if the caster doesn't know the Dwarven alphabet and what the sounds are.

Ah... well a symbol based cipher could do... perhaps limiting by alphabet would be the best way to do it. Point well made Rystil.

Cool... decipher script it is then! Now, whether to make my gnomish cryptologist a wizard, an archivist (once they get approved) or wait for the beguiler to get approved in November.