D Agony of D Feet

[pawsplay]

4d6 drop lowest was the default "Method I" since AD&D 1E.

Citation? My memory says it appeared in Oriental Adventures first.

In fact, that source comments that if you don't use that method you'll get "rather marginal characters [that] tend to have short life expectancy". (1E DMG p. 11)

I don't have the full quote in front of me.

I'm really curious what later source would have ever described 4d6 drop lowest as creating "super characters"?

It didn't say it created super characters, but rather, it had the tendency to. Source is the red cover text AD&D 2e.

Finally, the "deduction" that paladins and rangers were only played by cheating whiners is kind of just nonsense. I DM'd one paladin in my 1E games. He was very memorable, and the player didn't cheat.

He must have been lucky. Right off the bat, a 15 Charisma is in the top 10% of Charisma scores.... I am not exaggerating when I say one in hundreds of rolled characters using 3d6, in order, qualifies.

 

[pawsplay]

Hey, let's all make threads listing all "sucky stuff" in games we don't like. That'd be lots of fun and bring about some really interesting discussion! :\

I've got an a better idea... why don't we barge in on people's musings about older editions of a game, and discount the value they place on their experiences? Obviously, someone who views AD&D as imperfect must be a very negative person.... that's why everyone still plays it, it's perfect.

 

[pawsplay]

This is a pleasant change; an edition wars thread about something other than 4e! Hooray for the variety!

I personally think threads such as this one are much more powerful without the explicit value judgments. What one person considers "long-winded" another person may find interesting.

That's certainly the case. If I say "long-winded" it says more about me than about any intrinsic value of the text. But texts don't really have much intrinsic meaning. Thus, it is my experience and interpretation.

I just find it tedious to preface every other sentence with IMHO. Example: IMHO, the sky often appears blue during the day.

I thought it was clear I was reporting on my experiences,

After a while, I begin to remember why AD&D made my head hurt and drove me to GURPS.

But just in case anyone is in doubt, anyone else is welcome to like AD&D, along with brussels sprouts, the musical accomplishments of Kenny G, or various 19th century economic philosophies. But I don't.

I find discussions with explicit value judgments superior to ones without either values or judgment.

 

[pawsplay]

I agree, and as such, I'm not going to participate, even though I do have some things I could add, but the tenor of the OP makes it seem likely that it would turn into a defensive war of words between 1e/2e and 3e "sides."

That certainly was not my intention. I realize that differences of opinion can be touchy, but the bottom line is, I'm not posting "for" or "against" anything. My purpose is, roughly speaking, critical analysis or simply historical reflection, albeit at a very superficial level.

 

[pawsplay]

As I've said in other threads, it dissapoints me that 3E encourages players to expect loads of treasure and magic items, instead of exercising ingenuity and planning to overcome challenges. As for super characters, flying warlocks with eldritch guns just about fit the bill for me, and I do think those sorts of thing have spoiled the game, if not "destroyed" it.

To a certain extent, I agree... I like my D&D fairly medieval. But even if you let every character have all 18s, it wouldn't change the character of D&D. And what is going to happen to my campaign if halflings can advance to an unlimited level as fighters?

Bothersome to keep track of in combat, but historically accurate and adds a dimension to equipment that goes beyond price/weight/bonus.

But it's really not. Historically, banded mail is a transitional armor, inferior to articulated plate armor or links. Likewise, chainmail supercedes ring. Some of the armors suck... and rightly so! They were primitive technologies that existed so briefly that surviving representatives are hard to find.

 

[Beckett]

Citation? My memory says it appeared in Oriental Adventures first.

1e DMG has it listed as the first of several alternate character generation methods.

 

[PapersAndPaychecks]

I give this a 3/10. A proper anti-1E hate rant should focus more on demi-human level limits.

Also, where are the traditional whines about having to use different dice rolls to do different things? Why fail to mention the number of charts? How come, in this whole rant, the OP doesn't use the word "arbitrary" even once?

 

[PapersAndPaychecks]

Historically, banded mail is a transitional armor, inferior to articulated plate armor or links. Likewise, chainmail supercedes ring. Some of the armors suck... and rightly so! They were primitive technologies that existed so briefly that surviving representatives are hard to find.

Thank you, I haven't laughed so hard in ages.

 

[Piratecat]

...the bottom line is, I'm not posting "for" or "against" anything.

Having just re-read the thread three times, I don't believe this to be the case. We'd just as soon not worry about an edition wars thread that seems tailor-made to inspire arguments and make 1e/2e fans feel defensive.

Pawsplay, please stay away from posting this type of thread in the future, especially if you do feel that this was discussion instead of very thinly-veiled sarcasm and criticism.

And for the other side, PapersAndPaychecks, please don't post just to say "nice rant." If you object to a thread, ignore it or report it, but don't make things worse.

Email me with questions, complaints or comments.

Klunk.