FickleGM
Explorer
http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=170445Wulf Ratbane said:
D&D changes every 5 levels by design...
MerricB said:Just found this post by Ryan Dancey on rpg.net (ok, he posted it 3 minutes ago...)
Original Thread http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?t=310363
Ryan Dancey
"D&D 3/3.5, by design, changes roughly every 5 levels. You may find that your group becomes comfortable in one of those 4 quartiles, or you may find that your group enjoys the changes of pace that happen when moving from quartile to quartile."
Interesting. The entire post is very interesting.
Discuss.
Cheers!
This is exactly as important as other instances of the law of fives.
I do tend to agree with Wulf that 5th level spells are the huge gleaming sign post of arriving magically. Those are the big deal effects of fantasy: Turn someone into a newt, bring someone back from the dead, appear out of nowhere, send an illusionary image to speak on your behalf, etc...etc..
As a sign post, I actually think 5th level spells are more significant than any other level. My group is approaching 17th level, so that may change, as 9th level spells rear their head, but in a group w/o a Wizard or Cleric the feel of 9th level spells I am sure will be different.
Which brings me to my point: party size and party composition effect a great deal, what 'epoch' of D&D you are playing. My own group has consistently maintained a roster of 7-9 players. With that many people, I think you tend to have a shorter low level period, as with some gentle care and good tactics, the group can have a sizable impact on 'mid level' monsters.
Likewise...a group made up of pure melee, or multi-classed spell casters are going to keep the mid level balance a bit longer, at least until "THE THIRD ITERATIVE ATTACK".
That 3rd attack is a sea change event, possibly greater, but more subtle than 5th level spells.
As a sign post, I actually think 5th level spells are more significant than any other level. My group is approaching 17th level, so that may change, as 9th level spells rear their head, but in a group w/o a Wizard or Cleric the feel of 9th level spells I am sure will be different.
Which brings me to my point: party size and party composition effect a great deal, what 'epoch' of D&D you are playing. My own group has consistently maintained a roster of 7-9 players. With that many people, I think you tend to have a shorter low level period, as with some gentle care and good tactics, the group can have a sizable impact on 'mid level' monsters.
Likewise...a group made up of pure melee, or multi-classed spell casters are going to keep the mid level balance a bit longer, at least until "THE THIRD ITERATIVE ATTACK".
That 3rd attack is a sea change event, possibly greater, but more subtle than 5th level spells.
DaveyJones
First Post
satori01 said:
true dat.
and the build levels just before that attack: 8th (bonus feat for fighters, a new stat increase), 9th (a new feat) and 10th (last level before taking the 10 lvl PrCs)
DragonLancer
Adventurer
drothgery said:21+ = save the cheerleader
LOL. Fantastic. Thats cheered up an otherwise bland day.
Mercule
Adventurer
This holds true with what I tell my group:
1-5: More or less normal, if skilled, people.
6-10: Olympic class athletes, extreme geniuses, etc. Pushes into unlikely, but possible.
11-15: Hollywood physics. These things can't happen, but they're still semi-believable.
16-20: Wireworks and other feats that are blatantly impossible -- but still fun.
Since magic is straight-up not real-world at 1st level, I mainly worry about how things like fighting, skills, and similar abilities compare.
1-5: More or less normal, if skilled, people.
6-10: Olympic class athletes, extreme geniuses, etc. Pushes into unlikely, but possible.
11-15: Hollywood physics. These things can't happen, but they're still semi-believable.
16-20: Wireworks and other feats that are blatantly impossible -- but still fun.
Since magic is straight-up not real-world at 1st level, I mainly worry about how things like fighting, skills, and similar abilities compare.
That Ryan Dancey fellow, he's a smart dude. I think his involvement was a huge factor to how successful D&D and D20 have been.
When you think about it, it makes perfect sense to have a single game that can appeal to the widest possible audience. Some people will always gripe and moan about not enjoying some level of gameplay, but they can still find their sweet spot in the game and remain there comfortably.
When you think about it, it makes perfect sense to have a single game that can appeal to the widest possible audience. Some people will always gripe and moan about not enjoying some level of gameplay, but they can still find their sweet spot in the game and remain there comfortably.
Wulf Ratbane
Adventurer
Schmoe said:
Seriously, it's that realization that has kept me from redesigning for a sweet spot game.
There's just not really that much redesign to be done, no matter how much fun I might have doing it.
