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D&D Clone Wars
- Thread starter rounser
- Start date
Dog Moon
Adventurer
I think maybe it's more because of the title of the thread. Immediately, it starts us off by thinking of something completely different from what you actually want to discuss. However, I can in the middle of the cloning discussion, so I don't know why the first bunch of people posted what they did. I wasn't even going to mention my initial thought until I noticed that the thread was basically focused on it.
Maybe you should restart the thread using a different title and allow the miscreants here to continue their wacky conversation while others discuss the importance you initially tried to convey with the thread.
Dog Moon
Adventurer
I didn't really view his topic as 'improving D&D.' I thought it was more of a discussion about the different versions and how he could take one and adapt it to his own style the most to get more out of it. Someone puts together different things from different systems to create what is right for him and his group. I see nothing wrong with that. It's basically houseruling, just a LOT more complex than normal.
Dog Moon
Adventurer
Technically, you're the second poster on this thread and you're the one who started it all. Perhaps someone else might have mentioned something similar to you, but that's beside the point. I think the people should have stayed on topic to the subject instead of just ignoring the entire first post. LostSoul actually had something to say about the first post, but I notice that immediately after, you basically forced everyone to ignore an attempt to bring the thread back on topic and continue on this side path. If you dislike the topic, you shouldn't post in that thread, even if you believe that it might be a 'better/more interesting topic.'
I regret my part in the thread's continuation off-topic, but the thread's original idea was pretty much dead at that point in time.
Shadowslayer
Explorer
rounser said:
Well, if you check some of the C&C forums, there's lots of guys using feats...and some sort of skill system is bound to crop up in the CKG (remember C&C is a pretty new game) Feats are very doable, provided you scratch the ones that involve pure 3x mechanics...Like AoOs etc. That'll give you a bit of customization.
Its a good system to at least come halfway on. Depends how much "carrot on a stick" you want. Personally I think 3x is guilty of just bolting on a few abilities in some classes, just to bring them up to he point where they're "worth" the same as the other classes XP wise. C&C goes back to the thinking that a 5th level rogue doesn't necessarily equal a 5th level wizard, and the XPs needed reflect that. I prefer it that way by YMMV.
Obviously C&C scraps the notion of "the character build" in favor of more generic classes and smoother play. (and WAY easier DMing) It does that job handsomely.
Elder-Basilisk
First Post
My recommendation:
Use D&D 3.5 (I prefer it to 3.0 now that I've given it a chance) and find conversions for your old D&D material online if you need it. Otherwise, the web and, curiously enough, D&D minis can greatly simplify the need for statblocks which is probably the primary hurdle in using materials from older D&D editions. There are tons of statblocks already out there on the web (for instance, the d20 100 NPCs thread in the rogue's gallery
http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=99643&page=1&pp=40
or blackdirge's souped up, buffed up monster thread). And, if you have D&D minis, each one comes with a card that has RPG stats for the mini. Thumbing through a few of my cards, I came up with stats for a Ftr 1/Mnk 6, Clr 3 (of St. Cuthbert), Clr 1 (of Dol Arrah), human War 3, and a half-elf hexblade 7.
These can be exploited a bit more fully once you know the system. For instance, a statblock for an orc warrior could easily be used for a human warrior--just reduce his strength a little bit, assume he's a bit dumber and ruder than most, and then give him another skill at max ranks and a skill focus feat in it. So, the human to orc conversion works out to: Skill points: add either jump, climb or ride at character level +6 +dex, and reduce strength by 2 (atk -1, damage -1 with a one-handed weapon). Result: a dumb and unusually rude human of the same character class. It's easy enough to even do on the fly. Premade half-elf NPCs are ideal for this: they can be converted into humans with only the addition of a skill and feat (which probably won't come up) or into elves by changing constitution and dexterity (AC, fort, reflex, init, hit points).
That leaves you with all of the advantages of 3.5 in balance and customization of characters and minimizes the disadvantages.
As for the rules arguments, etc advantages, I don't think you'll actually find that to be too different in systems with fewer rules. I remember I had far more rules arguments in 2e than I did in 3.x. Part of the reason is undoubtedly because I'm no longer in junior high/high school. But part of the reason is also because the rules cover more situations. "Can I jump on the table and hit the orc from above?" Sure. DC 10 jump check to hop up onto the table and +1 to hit for higher ground. Under 2e, it would depend on whether or not the DM had been turned down for a date that day (or whether the sky was blue, his bike had got a flat tire or someone else got the last pizza slice while he was still hungry) whether it was a strength check, a dex check, no roll needed, or straight up impossible if you're wearing armor. Everyone thinks they're reasonable and consistent but few people are as reasonable or consistent as they think.
Use D&D 3.5 (I prefer it to 3.0 now that I've given it a chance) and find conversions for your old D&D material online if you need it. Otherwise, the web and, curiously enough, D&D minis can greatly simplify the need for statblocks which is probably the primary hurdle in using materials from older D&D editions. There are tons of statblocks already out there on the web (for instance, the d20 100 NPCs thread in the rogue's gallery
http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=99643&page=1&pp=40
or blackdirge's souped up, buffed up monster thread). And, if you have D&D minis, each one comes with a card that has RPG stats for the mini. Thumbing through a few of my cards, I came up with stats for a Ftr 1/Mnk 6, Clr 3 (of St. Cuthbert), Clr 1 (of Dol Arrah), human War 3, and a half-elf hexblade 7.
These can be exploited a bit more fully once you know the system. For instance, a statblock for an orc warrior could easily be used for a human warrior--just reduce his strength a little bit, assume he's a bit dumber and ruder than most, and then give him another skill at max ranks and a skill focus feat in it. So, the human to orc conversion works out to: Skill points: add either jump, climb or ride at character level +6 +dex, and reduce strength by 2 (atk -1, damage -1 with a one-handed weapon). Result: a dumb and unusually rude human of the same character class. It's easy enough to even do on the fly. Premade half-elf NPCs are ideal for this: they can be converted into humans with only the addition of a skill and feat (which probably won't come up) or into elves by changing constitution and dexterity (AC, fort, reflex, init, hit points).
That leaves you with all of the advantages of 3.5 in balance and customization of characters and minimizes the disadvantages.
As for the rules arguments, etc advantages, I don't think you'll actually find that to be too different in systems with fewer rules. I remember I had far more rules arguments in 2e than I did in 3.x. Part of the reason is undoubtedly because I'm no longer in junior high/high school. But part of the reason is also because the rules cover more situations. "Can I jump on the table and hit the orc from above?" Sure. DC 10 jump check to hop up onto the table and +1 to hit for higher ground. Under 2e, it would depend on whether or not the DM had been turned down for a date that day (or whether the sky was blue, his bike had got a flat tire or someone else got the last pizza slice while he was still hungry) whether it was a strength check, a dex check, no roll needed, or straight up impossible if you're wearing armor. Everyone thinks they're reasonable and consistent but few people are as reasonable or consistent as they think.
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