D&D feel/fun in games without class, level, etc. (+)

[Autumnal]

FAE and Risus, both for the same reason - flexibility with regard to character realization (in both system, I've found that I can pretty much build any character that I can imagine right out of the gate).

Me too. I’m very comfortable with broad strokes when they’re just the right strokes for that character (scene, locale, etc).

Anyway: I wanted to do big epic high level D&D inspired by things like WoW cinematic trailers. I was going to do a 17th level D&D game until I realized that at that point the characters are just superheroes, so I went with M&M3 instead. Pregens were conceived of as high level D&D characters with all the requisite tropes, but then distilled to their main features which were then built as M&M3 powers. I did not try to emulate things like spells per day, but did try and make smite feel like D&D smite in the context of M&M3.

In play, it was a super hero story. The PCs were the High Guard: the high level.D&D party that saved the world then retired to their domains. They had rivals and character specific villains, making it very much a JLA vs Legion of Doom scenario with a world eating dragon problem at its center. I run these things with a broad outline and a bunch of nonsense in my head and just go, so it is never about "telling the players a story."

That sounds delightful. I’m very happy to read about someone actually doing it.

As to specific tips: the most important one, I think, is aiming for the feel of D&D, not trying to recreate its mechanics. You don't need to give the super mage a spells per day limit. Instead you need to make his power pool feel like D&D spells.

Absolutely agreed.

Yeah, if I was going to go lower power level I would be inclined to use Hero also. You can really drill down on what you want, character wise, in Hero and the complexity is all front loaded. Once you start playing it is a moderately crunchy medium tactical game.

I should give Hero another look and see how my learning disabilities with regard to acronyms and abbreviations are doing these days. I definitely don’t object to setup work that pays off in play.

I don't know if you want to go with Random Dude on the Internet (TM), but I am working on a classless, level-less D&D 5E. The key points to my redesign are:

It sounds interesting, but in my years as a commercial rpg author and developer, I saw enough work in progress to last me at least one lifetime. Post about your progress, though - this sounds like something I’ll want to read when it’s done-ish.

Index Card RPG: It's level-less. 2E leans more into classes; however, 1E progression is rooted more in magic items. There are pseudo-classes that are like starting packages.

Well huh. I thought ICRPG has both classes and levels. Someone better tell me about its other distinctive features or point me at a good review so that I can be less of an ignoramus.

Yeah, I tend to say that people who think Hero is particularly complex in play either are used to fairly lightweight games, or are going off reputation, not reality.

I agree.

Magic World might be worth checking out in general if it isn’t a version of BRP you already have looked at? It’s the Stormbringer system with the IP removed.

Always happy to join in with a good word for Magic World.

 

[johndesmarais]

I’m aware it exists, but it seems substantially crunchier than I can handle these days and without something to try out that’s cheap enough to be a reasonable purchase for me if it turns out to be a dud (for me) and compact enough to be within reach of my addled brain, alas. I like the idea, but I think it’s out of my reach for now.

If GURPS is to much, have you looked at The Fantasy Trip? Same DNA as GURPS, but a lot less mechanics.

 

[Autumnal]

I played the Fantasy Trip in its MicroGame incarnation and then with three books that apparently showcase an interrupted orgy on the cover. But it doesn’t seem to offer support for anything but combat, and that’s not my thing these days.

 

[johndesmarais]

I played the Fantasy Trip in its MicroGame incarnation and then with three books that apparently showcase an interrupted orgy on the cover. But it doesn’t seem to offer support for anything but combat, and that’s not my thing these days.

Fantasy Trip: In The Labyrinth is more than just combat. It uses the core system of the old micro games Advanced Melee and Advanced Wizardray as a base, but expands it out to full (albeit minimalist) rpg system.

 

[Thomas Shey]

If GURPS is to much, have you looked at The Fantasy Trip? Same DNA as GURPS, but a lot less mechanics.

The problem is its easy for the whiff factor in TFT to be too high for a typical D&D feel.

 

[GMMichael]

I’m aware it exists, but it seems substantially crunchier than I can handle these days and without something to try out that’s cheap enough to be a reasonable purchase for me if it turns out to be a dud (for me) and compact enough to be within reach of my addled brain, alas. I like the idea, but I think it’s out of my reach for now.

. . . But it doesn’t seem to offer support for anything but combat, and that’s not my thing these days.

I use Modos 2 for my D&D itch. It's a light game, free, character-classless, and doesn't even have a combat chapter. . .

Sure, there's a "conflict" chapter, but physical, mental, and even metaphysical conflict get equal spotlight.

I just like a game of DND (Delving and Nocturnal Dice) that rewards character flaws and creativity. Few things ruin a session for me more than the GM saying, "I don't think you can do that. Hold on while I look for it in this massive rule book..."

 

[Autumnal]

Agreed there. I like saying yes and I like concocting funky actions.

 

[aramis erak]

I played the Fantasy Trip in its MicroGame incarnation and then with three books that apparently showcase an interrupted orgy on the cover. But it doesn’t seem to offer support for anything but combat, and that’s not my thing these days.

You need to reread ITL (In the Labyrinth), sir.

It has about 2/3 the level of non-combat support as G:Basic 1e & GURPS: Fantasy 1...
Rules for reactions, and for modifying them. Rules for a variety of tasks. It's not as broad as GURPS, but it's mechanically supported.
Lots of non-combat talents.
The Jobs system, which is the precursor of GURPS' job system
The recovery rules.
Advanced Wizard includes rules for enchanting and a good range of utility magic.
Advanced Melee was totally not essential, and largely wasted text, unless you're the type to pick armor and weapons thematically rather than optimally, and/or want to do subdual/KO's, Disarms, etc.

Note: The new ITL (Legacy Edition) is a comprehensive ruleset, including the material from ITL (OE) AW & AM...

It won't get a D&D feel without much effort, given the limited HP and moderately high base damage by comparison. (It generally feels like the fragility of 2nd level modern or 3rd to 4th level pre-WotC D&D.

I whiled away a couple power outages by using the Job rules, random encounter rules, and reaction rules as a solo mode, given the full rules.

For me, the biggest issue with TFT is the low number of attributes.

 

[Autumnal]

Okay, I’m sold, I will give it another look. It wouldn’t be the first time I needed to update an opinion.

 

[aramis erak]

Okay, I’m sold, I will give it another look. It wouldn’t be the first time I needed to update an opinion.

If hesitant and capable of coping with PDF, get the PDF to decide if you want to get the big box.

Note that the big box includes an awesome array of megahex tiles on chipboard, the boxed Melee and Wizard relayouts, a bunch of megahex-tiles -- same mix as between Wizard, Melee, Advanced Wizard, Advanced Melee, and ITL - but in chipboard (3mm IIRC), --- the counters from both wizard and melee, plus some extras, in chipboard, double sided. (Flip to mark the location of the dead.) And the tileset includes the biggest dragon yet countered... Plus the new ITL, and some goodies.