D&D (2024) D&D Player’s Handbook (2024)

[Parmandur]

Where were those from?

From this post forward:

Post in thread '50th Anniversary WotC live panel at PAX Unplugged 2023.' https://www.enworld.org/threads/50t...nel-at-pax-unplugged-2023.701330/post-9206951

 

[GrimCo]

Whooooa there, the difference between $180 MSRP and $200 is still more than one metric burrito.

But yeah, you are right, it is a good bang for the buck. $180 won't even get yoy 3 whole PS5 games.

No, but it can get you crap ton of good, fun games for PC that will entertain you for hundreds of hours and you don't even need high end PC to run them. FE ES3: Morrowind GOTY edition is 15e on GOG and you can burn around 120 hours just for main quests, or if you are completion freak, almost 400 hours. That's lot of bang for the buck. One of my all time favourite CRPGs, Arcanum, is 3.60e. It's 60ish hours of gameplay just for the story, and much more if you tinker with tech and magic builds.

180$ is not much for entertainment and if divided between group of 4-5 people, that comes around 35-45$ per person. If you have consistent group and play at least semi regular, that is good value proposition. But if you play once a month for couple of hours, it could skew to not so good value compared to PC game for instance.

 

[Parmandur]

PS5 games are low effort.

BG3 probably gonna get several hundred hours out of it no effort required.

That's probably 2 years gaming for hard-core players eg 4 hour sessions weekly.

Shorter sessions not weekly or both you're looking at 4 years maybe longer. That assumes you can find such a group.

And there's games bigger than BG 3 and cheaper. Assassins Creed Odyssey ultimate edition often 66--75% off and twice the size of BG3 roughly. So around half the price of a phb.

So RPGs aren't actually that good value wise unless you're a heavy user over the long term. Effort/reward hell logistics.

Our consoles also double as devices and fall into stuff we have anyway. Somewhat moot point for us but ENworld skews older, American and mostly middle class or upper middle class. Would not be surprised if majority here have university degrees (25% here iirc).

Others can technically afford it but opportunity cost eg vs Netflix, PS5, booze, dining out or whatever. Value proposition.

That excluded things like social groups or even finding groups online.

For us it's not can we afford $200 bucks (maybe more) but how much are we actually gonna use them vs cost vs effort.

Haven't seen the books yet. Bare minimum probably buy core rules eventually. The difference is buying 3 books vs traditional 30-50.

BG3 is an atypical example, way beyond the curve: the normal big PS5 release is more like 25-30 hours, which isn't bad mind you, but the potential from D&D books is greater.

 

[Parmandur]

No, but it can get you crap ton of good, fun games for PC that will entertain you for hundreds of hours and you don't even need high end PC to run them. FE ES3: Morrowind GOTY edition is 15e on GOG and you can burn around 120 hours just for main quests, or if you are completion freak, almost 400 hours. That's lot of bang for the buck. One of my all time favourite CRPGs, Arcanum, is 3.60e. It's 60ish hours of gameplay just for the story, and much more if you tinker with tech and magic builds.

180$ is not much for entertainment and if divided between group of 4-5 people, that comes around 35-45$ per person. If you have consistent group and play at least semi regular, that is good value proposition. But if you play once a month for couple of hours, it could skew to not so good value compared to PC game for instance.

I love Morrowind and Aecanum, but...those games are old enough to order booze at the bar. I know adults younger than them. I was talking about the new hotness, not golden oldies (again, I like them, played the crap out of then for more than $15 when I was a teen). There is a reason those games are routinely available for free (I own all the older Elder Scrolls games for free in digital, now).

 

[UngeheuerLich]

I love Morrowind and Aecanum, but...those games are old enough to order booze at the bar. I know adults younger than them. I was talking about the new hotness, not golden oldies (again, I like them, played the crap out of then for more than $15 when I was a teen). There is a reason those games are routinely available for free (I own all the older Elder Scrolls games for free in digital, now).

Amd those golden oldies often did not age that well... I really remember a lot of games where I was flashed by the realistic and colourful graphics...
and parallax scrolling... And 3d effects...

and today I just see a jumble of pixels...

 

[Parmandur]

Amd those golden oldies often did not age that well... I really remember a lot of games where I was flashed by the realistic and colourful graphics...
and parallax scrolling... And 3d effects...

and today I just see a jumble of pixels...

Older editions of D&D actually age way, waaaay better.

 

[GrimCo]

Those games are just examples. But to be honest, 5th ed is not really spring chicken either. It's 10 year old game. This update is similar to remaster of older game. It isn't new hotness. New hotness would be full fledged 6th edition. Completely new game design, new mechanics. This is like remake where they update graphics and smooth out some of the old janky mechanics, but it's still same old game you played decade ago.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Older editions of D&D actually age way, waaaay better.

That was a joke, right?

 

[Parmandur]

Those games are just examples. But to be honest, 5th ed is not really spring chicken either. It's 10 year old game. This update is similar to remaster of older game. It isn't new hotness. New hotness would be full fledged 6th edition. Completely new game design, new mechanics. This is like remake where they update graphics and smooth out some of the old janky mechanics, but it's still same old game you played decade ago.

Well, no, the analogy breaks down completely well before that poont: D&D is a tabletop game, not a video game. And modern D&D is an evergreen game, refinements over the coming decades are what we will see.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Those games are just examples. But to be honest, 5th ed is not really spring chicken either. It's 10 year old game. This update is similar to remaster of older game. It isn't new hotness. New hotness would be full fledged 6th edition. Completely new game design, new mechanics. This is like remake where they update graphics and smooth out some of the old janky mechanics, but it's still same old game you played decade ago.

The smoothing out is important. Just bought masters of magic and hoped for some smoothness. But it was just updated graphics... and it got more unintuitive... So I refunded it immediately. I was a bit sad...