D&D 5E D&D Promises to Make the Game More Queer

[Hussar]

Not exactly a huge saturation of monotheists, is it? One character that I recognize and two I've never heard of, only one of which meets the criteria.

Sounds like some diversity is needed...

Wait, what? 3 incredibly popular movies aren't enough for you? Daredevil isn't good enough for you?

Good grief, look at Big Bang Theory. Sheldon is from a highly Christian family, although he isn't, Howard is Jewish and this is referenced multiple times. Howard's wife Bernadette is Christian, again, referenced multiple times. So, about half the characters have religious ties. How much do you want?

I think you're probably seeing a bit of confirmation bias, considering you don't know characters from two of theof the most popular movies in recent film.

 

[Xeviat]

Of the movies I've seen this year, four had queer characters: Power Rangers (Trini is questioning), Wonder Woman ("men aren't needed for pleasure"), Beauty and the Beast (Lefou implied, stated by the director), and Ruby Rose's character in XXX (not stated, but she hit on a girl).

So, four vs. the three Christians I mentioned (Oh, four; Sam Jackson's character in XXX has a funeral in a church, that's religious). But ... considering my taste in movies, they're going to skew more to those with gay characters ...

 

[tombowings]

I dont know, is a gay guy putting gay characters in his products trying to be politically correct?

Depends how it's done. As I said before, the Song of Fire and Ice handles homosexuality well and could be an interesting addition to an adventure (expose/cover up the lord's son sodomy). The murder of two men engaged in homosexuality were murdered in the act while trying to summon a demon could be an intriguing way to start an adventure, and one's I've used myself.

As long as it fits the tone of the world and isn't included only for the sake of inclusiveness, non-straight character could be one way to give a new product a unique identity.

 

[Xeviat]

Wait, what? 3 incredibly popular movies aren't enough for you? Daredevil isn't good enough for you?

Good grief, look at Big Bang Theory. Sheldon is from a highly Christian family, although he isn't, Howard is Jewish and this is referenced multiple times. Howard's wife Bernadette is Christian, again, referenced multiple times. So, about half the characters have religious ties. How much do you want?

I think you're probably seeing a bit of confirmation bias, considering you don't know characters from two of theof the most popular movies in recent film.

I forgot the whole family of people Logan stayed with in "Logan". They made them pray before eating dinner.

 

[Xeviat]

Depends how it's done. As I said before, the Song of Fire and Ice handles homosexuality well and could be an interesting addition to an adventure (expose/cover up the lord's son sodomy). The murder of two men engaged in homosexuality were murdered in the act while trying to summon a demon could be an intriguing way to start an adventure, and one's I've used myself.

As long as it fits the tone of the world and isn't included only for the sake of inclusiveness, non-straight character could be one way to give a new product a unique identity.

so gay characters gayness should be the negative spark to an adventure? Next you'll say we should be happy with every Disney villain being "coded gay".

 

[Hussar]

Agendas have a place: debate. Including one's agenda in media is little more than propaganda, which I see as an illegitimate form argument (although many would disagree). What we need is to reclaim the battle of ideas from the battle of emotions that has flooded our society. Inclusion of anything for the sake of being politically correct comes off as corny at best and is more likely to be crass than anything else.

Personally, I would prefer if my D&D wasn't transformed into a podium.

Umm, no. That is not propaganda. That's not what propaganda means.

But, that aside, how do you differentiate? You say that it's great to include a gay character when it creates drama and is part of the plot. But, it's crass to have a gay NPC in the game that doesn't create drama and is part of the plot? So, we can only have gay characters when it becomes part of the story? It cannot ever just be part of the background?

So, is it equally crass when the male innkeeper has a female wife? What's the difference?

 

[tombowings]

so gay characters gayness should be the negative spark to an adventure? Next you'll say we should be happy with every Disney villain being "coded gay".

Not a negative spark necessarily, but judging by the standards of D&D's the pseudo-medieval backdrop, it makes the most sense to me, personally. Then again, I run my games a little like a Jack Vance novel, in which 100% of the NPCs are corrupt, scheming, or tyrannical.

As for presenting homosexuality is a positive light, I'm all for it, as long as it furthers the story in some way. The PCs having the choice to stop two gay blacksmiths from being burnt on the stake and dealing with the repercussions of their actions or inaction could be interesting. Preventing a grove of druidic terrorists, who see homosexuality as an act against laws of nature, from hunting down and murdering homosexuals could be, too.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

So the three examples from recent movies I stated wasn't enough? The movies I mentioned didn't have any gay characters besides "XXX: The Return of Xander Cage".

You reached clear back to 2012 to find your examples. I'm not a huge movie buff (obviously) but since 2012 we've had Hikaru Sulu in Star Trek: Into Darkness, LeFou in Beauty and the Beast, Trini Quan from Power Rangers, Holtzmann from Ghostbusters, and Cynthia Rose in Pitch Perfect. I'm sure there's a ton of others I can't remember or have never seen. In real life, 37% of Americans attend church weekly or near-weekly, and only 4.1% identify as gay or lesbian, but if you were going off of media representation you'd probably guess the proportions the other way around.

Not to mention the also-large number of Americans who are atheists.

It would be nice to have D&D acknowledge that these people exist. It's not like they're not part of D&D's history after all.

And it would be nice to have D&D acknowledge polytheism too. Instead of some stupid boring fantasy priest who worships Vecna and calls on Vecna for healing and calls on Vecna for smiting and calls on Vecna for divination, how about a priest who calls on Apollo for healing and calls on Zeus for smiting and calls on Athena for divination? Y'know, like an actual polytheist might actually do if he lived back in ancient Greece? The number of people who are being properly represented by WotC's current religious tropes is approximately zero.

 

[tombowings]

Umm, no. That is not propaganda. That's not what propaganda means.

But, that aside, how do you differentiate? You say that it's great to include a gay character when it creates drama and is part of the plot. But, it's crass to have a gay NPC in the game that doesn't create drama and is part of the plot? So, we can only have gay characters when it becomes part of the story? It cannot ever just be part of the background?

So, is it equally crass when the male innkeeper has a female wife? What's the difference?

Propaganda: "information, especially of a biased or misleading nature, used to promote a political cause or point of view."

OK. If it isn't propaganda, please provide one case of homosexuality in medieval Europe that merely blended into the background and did not cause political or familial drama?

 

[Xeviat]

Not a negative spark necessarily, but judging by the standards of D&D's the pseudo-medieval backdrop, it makes the most sense to me, personally. Then again, I run my games a little like a Jack Vance novel, in which 100% of the NPCs are corrupt, scheming, or tyrannical.

As for presenting homosexuality is a positive light, I'm all for it, as long as it furthers the story in some way. The PCs having the choice to stop two gay blacksmiths from being burnt on the stake and dealing with the repercussions of their actions or inaction could be interesting. Preventing a grove of druidic terrorists, who see homosexuality as an act against laws of nature, from hunting down and murdering homosexuals could be, too.

That's not what inclusion means. We want to see characters like ourselves portrayed positively. Maybe we don't want to be reminded of the negativity of the real world.

Do you include rape in your stories too, to create drama, to the discomfort of any players at your table?