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D&D with "alt film" stars: the WotC interview

Celebrim

Legend
Celebrim, I dunno, your post came off as kneejerk WotC hate to me.

Oh, good grief. Give me some credit. When I want to criticize something, I usually do a more thorough job than that. Here's some criticism though, such as I can muster.

I don't personally think much motivated WotC other than a chance to link D&D to some T&A. I don't feel that that this creates nearly as positive of a perception as some think. All this does out in the larger world, is associate D&D even more with basement dwelling, porn watching, permanently immature people who've never had sex in their lives. I don't know if you realize this, but for most people, 'porn stars' are no more cool than the people who watch them. I think that its cool that there are some porn stars who are nerds, but they are cool because they are nerds - not because they are porn stars. The number of people who associate either 'porn stars' or 'nerds' with cool is pretty small. I just don't see 'D&D with Porn Stars' as doing anything particularly positive for the image of the hobby, much less an interview that begins: "I played RPGs and wargames when I was a kid because it was the '80s and I liked Iron Maiden, and you were required to do that in the '80s if you liked Iron Maiden: arson, petty theft, and D&D."

This does not associate D&D in most peoples minds with 'the cool people'. It's very close to the amphetamine/marijauna use, satanism, and juvenile mysogyny that was the sterotype of D&D in the early 80's.

Most of all, I don't see this sort of interview as being particularly smart corporate relations for a subsidiary of Hasbro, or at least, I'm really surprised that Hasbro sees it as smart public relations. Sure, it's excellent advertising for the porn stars who'll probably get alot of exposure out of this, but I'm not sure how positively this impacts WotC's image to suggest that the game is associated with pornography and criminal behavior. I seriously doubt that there will be any fallout from it, because well, no one but us is paying attention and you probably couldn't more demonize D&D in the public eye than it is, but you never know.

However, all that being said, I don't really have a problem with the interview. I find it abit suprising and mildly worrisome given D&D's already shaky public perceptions as an anti-social activity that encourages murder and suicide, but I've got no real problem with interviewing Zak. I read through Zak's blog when it first was being talked about on EnWorld, and he seemed like a good solid DM who wrote intelligently about the craft. He also linked to alot of good work, which left me surfing gaming blogs for hours. Plus we got alot in common as DMs. We both prefer to play a heavily houseruled version of 3.X with heavy 1e influences, we both enjoy playing with new players, and both of us believe in tough love as a DM. Moreover, I'm not a huge fan of modern art, but Zak's work is pretty darn good (I'd put some of it on my walls) and critically comes off as the work of someone using these techniques by choice and not (as so often seems to be the case with 'modern art') because they lack the talent to do anything else. It's good work. He should be proud of it. And, I'm sad to hear that his girl is sick, and I hope that she gets better.

But, I can't help but feel that Zak's notoriaty is not due to his obvious skill as a DM or a painter, but rather to what is actually little more than voyerism. And I consider that a shame, because he can't be recognized for his talent, but he can get attention with sex. And I really find that sad. I mean, I haven't seen his other work, so maybe he's a really talented porn star, but I personally think his work as a painter, a DM, and apparantly a person is far more important than the fact that he has had sex and apparantly some people like to watch him do it. What struck me most from his blog was how good of a friend he was being. That seemed to me to be what was important; not naked chicks.

Admin here. What just got Celebrim booted from the thread was the next paragraph:

And, maybe when some of you have had sex, you'll understand that as well and the whole idea of sex won't seem quite so novel. (Partially kidding there, but this thread really does reinforce that sterotype heavily, to the point that for the first time, I'm seriously considering it relevant.)

I have a general guideline when evaluating posts that I like to call my "don't be a jerk" guideline (although "jerk" is generally replaced by a more amusing synonym.). If I read something and think "do I think the person is just trying to be a jerk?" and the answer is yes, I usually intervene. That's where this insult comes in. It's fine to express an opinion, but the gratuitous slam causes me to reject the entire post. When you're discussing this topic, folks, use good judgment and a sense of decorum -- and respect other peoples' opinions. Thanks. ~ PCat
 
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Steel_Wind

Legend
I am utterly flabbergast at some of the responses on this thread.

You are surprised that the publisher of THE ICONIC Geek game of Geek games, the playing of which is STILL a shorthand in much of the public's mind for "Most likely to NEVER get laid", would post an article about a blog called Playing DnD with Pornstars?

This surprises you?

Fear a controversy in the press? Let me tell you something: if this actually BECAME a "controversy" in the press, Hasbro marketing department couldn't POSSIBLY be happier.

It would not only be free publicity which would not be associated with their core brands, it would undo a significant and unfortunate stereotype in the popular press at a stroke.

You couldn't buy marketing cachet like that with $10 million and two minutes spots during the Super Bowl.
 

Dire Bare

Legend
I am utterly flabbergast at some of the responses on this thread.

You are surprised that the publisher of THE ICONIC Geek game of Geek games, the playing of which is STILL a shorthand in much of the public's mind for "Most likely to NEVER get laid", would post an article about a blog called Playing DnD with Pornstars?

This surprises you?

Fear a controversy in the press? Let me tell you something: if this actually BECAME a "controversy" in the press, Hasbro marketing department couldn't POSSIBLY be happier.

It would not only be free publicity which would not be associated with their core brands, it would undo a significant and unfortunate stereotype in the popular press at a stroke.

You couldn't buy marketing cachet like that with $10 million and two minutes spots during the Super Bowl.

Hmmm, perhaps I should forward this to as many news sources as I can . . .

:)

Occult Scare in the 80s = best selling time for D&D ever!

Porn Scare in the 2010s = massive resurgence in sales? Win!
 

But, I can't help but feel that Zak's notoriaty is not due to his obvious skill as a DM or a painter, but rather to what is actually little more than voyerism.
And you seem to be very wrong. The "pornstar" might be the hook, but the people seem to stay for the writing. I was in fact skeptical at first and didn't check it out first, it sounded "gimmicky", but when I eventually read it, turns out he actually wrote interesting stuff about tabletop roleplaying games.

Of course, you can now tell me that everyone that posted so far in this thread and mentioned his writing and skills positively here is still just a voyeur. Meh.
 

Olive

Explorer
And you seem to be very wrong. The "pornstar" might be the hook, but the people seem to stay for the writing.

Exactly - it's easily the most interesting gaming blog I read - they guy makes the rest of us look like idiots quite frankly. I don't think WotC did the interview because of the porn connection - I think they did it because IT'S A REALLY GOOD BLOG
 

aboyd

Explorer
From the article said:
A lot of times the sort of scorn people have for games just masks insecurity about being seen putting out effort in front of people and then failing—like a fear of public-speaking or having something you wrote or drew critiqued in public.
I don't know about anyone else, but I found Zak to be insightful. I think his comment, which I've quoted, is pretty savvy in regards to how people work. With his insight, I think my next newbie-friendly game will be friendlier.
 

Windjammer

Adventurer
Why am I not surprised that the interview didn't bring up 4th edition? Oh, that's why: because Zak wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot pole. His 10 foot pole.


...

In all earnest: kudos to WotC for giving the OSR crowd some spot lighting. It's gracious to link to people who don't appreciate your own spin on The Game, just as I thought it gracious to hyperlink Grognardia.com when referencing Jamie Mal's explanation of 'High Gygaxian' on DDI.
 

AllisterH

First Post
re: Robot Chicken and Penny Arcade

I'm not sure Robot Chicken can be considered an example of "older dudes telling younger kids what's cool".

Frankly, unless you're a child of the 80s, easily 75% of the jokes on Robot Chicken will go over your head.

Indeed, part of the appeal of RC IS that the younger audience won't get some of the jokes.

Not sure how this is a bad thing..but kudos to marketing.
 

Shemeska

Adventurer
I'm not sure Robot Chicken can be considered an example of "older dudes telling younger kids what's cool".

I was suggesting that the average age of the designers at WotC is a hefty bit above their target audience age, and also a bit above that of the guys making Robot Chicken for instance, and mine.
 

filthgrinder

First Post
And then to link to a non-4E adventure (Death Frost Doom)

This is actually the second time on the WotC site that Death Frost Doom has been mentioned. It was talked about in the podcast just before the holidays in their "What to buy for gamers" podcast. They mentioned how great the adventure was. I went and bought the PDF of it just because of it.

This is actually part of a series of interviews by WotC of them talking to bloggers in the D&D community. They are actually branching out and talking to the people that are popular in the community and highlighting what they are doing. Everything we'd actually want them to do to start engaging the community more.

Plus it actually mentioned and talks about the fact that they aren't playing 4E, I think that alone would make the naysayers cream their pants.
 

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